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LUZ_TAK

Rebel E-Wing with a Tech Slot?

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Ok, first things first:

- This is not a thread to argue if the E-Wing should belong to Resistance (no) or to a new "New Republic" faction (also no). It's about the Ewing as a Rebel ship. If you want to argue otherwise, please this is not the thread.

- I found a thread about a year old with similar scope, but it was about more ships: Defender, Kwing, etc. A year has passed, maybe it's time to revisit this.

I was thinking how to give the Ewing more prominence in the Rebel lists, and thought about adding a Tech slot. It fits the lore as the Ewing is more advanced than other rebel fighters and would give more options to the faction. l know the Ewings are already expensive and not very efficient, but let's do the exercise anyway.

How good/neutral/bad would adding the Tech slot be?

Any broken combination that should be avoided?

Good/fun tech upgrades you would use?

Should the slot option alter the ship's points? How much?

 

 

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I like this idea.  The only problem I see is that there are no ways to get tech upgrades inside the rebel faction.  If they ever repackage the E-wing, it would be a great opportunity to add tech upgrade cards.

 

I know most of us have multiple factions.  I am maybe the only person who only plays two (scum/rebels)  factions.  If I want to get my hands on tech upgrades, I can purchase exsisting ships out of faction, secondary market, or ask local community. 

 

 

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Hmmm. It's intriguing, but the only card that really stands out for me would be Targeting Synchronizer. Plus I don't really see that giving E-Wings the option to be even more expensive is what they need. Personally, I think the uniques need to come down a few points. Gavin ISN'T eight whole points better than a Rogue Squadron escort at the same Initiative with no difference other than an ability that's similar to a 1pt EPT. He just isn't. He's 4pts more at best (for 57pts)

Corran's a little harder to parse because he gives out a bonus attack and he's Initiative 5, his main problem is that Wedge is right there, is arguably just as lethal, and is a whole, whopping 11pts less. The Double-Tap is NOT what it used to be with it's Bullseye only restriction nor is it all that rare anymore; Every single B-Wing can now get a 4 dice bullseye double-tap that wont leave him disarmed for 7pts. Y-Wings have been effectively priced out of such shannigans but still have the option etc etc. He needs to come down. The only way that ridiculous price makes sense would be if he had a force token. He needs to go down to somewhere around 60-62pt level at least.

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I did start a similar slot discussion thread a while back, suggesting that a few ships get slot changes to spice things up.  Premise: what if the Starviper, E-Wing, and TIE Defender all lost their System slot and gained Tech?  I was thinking about it more as temporary changes to spice things up.

It wasn't a long thread, but there might be some thoughts.

4 hours ago, LUZ_TAK said:

How good/neutral/bad would adding the Tech slot be?

Any broken combination that should be avoided?

Good/fun tech upgrades you would use?

Should the slot option alter the ship's points? How much?

Targeting Synchronizer on the E-Wing is the really scary upgrade.  E-Wing takes the lock, everyone else can fire their missiles and torps without Locks.  That said, it's not that terrible.  E-Wing with TSynch is 56 points, probably 59 with R3 Astromech, since if you're investing on lock-less ordnance, you don't want to be limited to one target.  You could bring 5 Z-95s with Concussion Missiles, or E, 2 Z-95s and 2 Y-Wings with Torpedoes.  I wouldn't call that worse than Droids with DRK-1 Probes, or Jendon Bombers.  I understand the fear of TSynch, but any list with it just winds up looking worse than other Ordnance lists which are legal, but still go unplayed.

Pattern Analyzer would be pretty sweet.  Based on a suggestion in the above thread, you could outfit some PA/Elusive/[droid] E-Wings.  Flip around, gain a reroll, take a focus.  Either R4 Astromech, to really spiffy up the dial, or R3, to get the incredibly useful double-locks.  Sidebar: Having run triple R3/Torpedo E-Wings, I'm going to find it really hard to give up those two locks.  Just makes everything go so much better, and having a "round two" to the Alpha Strike seemed essential.  That said, I know the folks who run R4 E-Wings typically say they find it really hard to give up those White 1-hards and Blue 2-hards.  I even went into FlyCasual, turned on "let any ship equip any upgrade" and gave it a shot.  They were pretty fun to fly, but probably not a top-tables-large-tournament list.  Overall, I think Pattern Analyzer would be a solid card for E-Wings.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ewings just need reasonable costing. 

I2 - 48

i4 - 51

Gavin - 52

Corran - 55-58, maybe 56

I think that's a little more aggressive than I'd be with the pricing.

I can totally see the I2 at 48.  Do I think they need it?  Eh.  I'm fine with where they are for now, and maybe they get cut later, or not.  51 I4 starts to worry me.  Once Rogues dip to 52 or less, you can run three with R3 and Plasma/Proton/Proton.  At Init 2, I've got no concerns with it at all.  It's the kind of list you can have fun with, but probably isn't better than 50%.  At Init 4, I'm starting to pause some, particularly if they could also get Crack Shot.

Gavin should also come down from his current 61, but he's certainly worth more considerably than 1 point over a generic.  I'd be in the 4-5 points over the Rogue, since those crits can really add up fast.

56 Corran seems really low to me.  Even at his higher prices, he's been OK.  I know @RoockieBoy at least has done really well with him, high-cut at some large events.  That double-tap can hit really hard when well-used.  I can easily see dropping him to the same 62 as Luke, just to try to get folks off the fence and give him a try, because I think he's got a lot more potential than a lot of folks think he has.

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17 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

the same 62 as Luke

This has been my stance for a long time on his costing, he brings about the same as Luke to a Rebel Squad as a single reposition I5 with above average punch (Luke getting to double mod most rounds on attack adds up to a lot of extra hits too.) They both have ok survivability for that cost, but aren’t especially hard to take out compared with some other pilots. 

 

I think they should be right around, if not exactly, the same price and Corran with R4 and Pred at 66 then seems entirely reasonable. 

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4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

56 Corran seems really low to me.  Even at his higher prices, he's been OK.  I know @RoockieBoy at least has done really well with him, high-cut at some large events.  That double-tap can hit really hard when well-used.  I can easily see dropping him to the same 62 as Luke, just to try to get folks off the fence and give him a try, because I think he's got a lot more potential than a lot of folks think he has.

56p Corran would leave him in a very dangerous territory...

I’ve gone back to the Corran/Miranda/Farrell list after the points update, and it has only gone up 2p. (+3 for R2-D2, -1 for Miranda). So instead of having a 5 point bid I now have a 3p bid. I‘ve played 3 more games with the updated list and won all three. (Sixxa/Nym/Fenn), (2x silencers and 2x Sfs), and (3x, 2 Ys). So far I’m 15-2, I think the list has legs. 
Last game I played was against 3 T65 and 2 Ion Y-wings (all ships with R4).

B5F4930B-CD32-44BE-9E2B-0FEC60531663.jpeg

I took a gamble with Corran trying to do some damage turn one, but the stressed Y-wing rolled 2 nattie evades and in return, rolled hit crit with his primary. Greens failed me as I rolled 3 blanks and an evade having a focus. So 1 shield on Corran and 1 shield on a Y wing... not a good trade. Next turn Corran got caught in a bad spot, (4 enemy arcs) but only lost 2 more shields while getting BOTH y-wing to half points due to the double tap. (And some nice reds).

E5F8CE28-4020-4F3F-8261-C365FAF38D98.jpeg

From then Corran ran for three turns, regen’d back to full health, and watched as Miranda took care of things. I ended up killing 1 T65, one Y-wing and half of the other, not giving up any points. Farrell didn’t do much damage this game, but got the killshot on the damaged y-wing on the last turn. Diamond boron missiles did 3 damage to one T65 (2+1 from the splash) and another damage to a close Y-wing. I only dropped 2 bombs and they didn’t hit, but made the opponent choose worse maneuvers to avoid them.

In the game against FO Miranda dropped a seismic which blew the big middle rock (red color) hitting all four ships. Sabine ion’d one silencer, tractored another one into R1 of a TL focused Corran, jammed the focus of an Sf targetting Corran, and stressed the other Sf who would probably have done a 2 hard nex turn (it still did). Everything went my way and I was able to table the FO without giving up any points.

4AE9C0DD-66A2-4D52-ACEE-E2689EF543EB.jpeg
 

TLDR: Corran is good, though not top tier; but if you practice a lot, you can get above average results with him, and with a little luck on your side, anything’s possible. 

PS: I don’t really like the tech upgrades, but maybe PA could be nice. Losing FCS... I dunno

Edited by RoockieBoy
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15 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ewings just need reasonable costing. 

E-Wing costing is fine.

I4 w/ Proton Torps that lets them be fully modded on the opening engage being only 66 pts sounds like a bargain to me.

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E-Wings are under a similar wary eye as TIE Defenders, though not as focused.

The warming signs with E’s: The real Alfa strike potential tied in with a solid dial, 3 greens and a Regen slot make them a constant potential contender for the OP/NPE award.

I do like them though, I really do. But, I like Defenders too. Guess we all do.

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I'm interested in swapping the Sensor slot out on both the E-wing and the StarViper. PA and Target Synchronizer both work well with the ship, and PA and Primed Thrusters would be good on the StarViper. 

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20 hours ago, LUZ_TAK said:

Ok, first things first:

- This is not a thread to argue if the E-Wing should belong to Resistance (no) or to a new "New Republic" faction (also no). It's about the Ewing as a Rebel ship. If you want to argue otherwise, please this is not the thread.

Any broken combination that should be avoided?

If the First Rule of XWM is Balance with Points, the Second Rule of XWM is. . .

COMPARTMENTALIZATION.

If you are unwilling to give the E-Wing to a ST faction, it should NEVER get a Tech slot as Rebel ship for the exact reason you stated.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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2 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I'm interested in swapping the Sensor slot out on both the E-wing and the StarViper. PA and Target Synchronizer both work well with the ship, and PA and Primed Thrusters would be good on the StarViper. 

Primed Thrusters Guri or Dalan Oberos would be incredibly fun to fly, and probably ultimately rather fair.

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18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Primed Thrusters Guri or Dalan Oberos would be incredibly fun to fly, and probably ultimately rather fair.

The @MidWestScrub tried out Guri with PT and said it was fun to fly. Dalan particularly seems bonkers with his ability. Perhaps it would let him see some game time. Dropping the Sensor slot on the Viper also might allow for a point drop on Adv Sensors as added benefit.

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

If you are unwilling to give the E-Wing to a ST faction, it should NEVER get a Tech slot as Rebel ship for the exact reason you stated.

I’m also not for tech slot on E-Wings (they need to be cheaper, not more expensive), but I understand the reasoning:

T-70s have the Tech slot.

I had thought tech was supposed to represent the advancements that had been made over the course of 30 years, but then I found out that the T-70 came out before the Empire was even gone. The argument doesn’t work.

Actually, for all we know, the E-Wing came around sometime between the T-70 and the T-85.
 

For me though, the truth of the matter is that we just don’t know, so we might as well treat it like the rest of the Rebel ships.

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55 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

The @MidWestScrub tried out Guri with PT and said it was fun to fly. Dalan particularly seems bonkers with his ability. Perhaps it would let him see some game time. Dropping the Sensor slot on the Viper also might allow for a point drop on Adv Sensors as added benefit.

I think what I actually said was that it was stupidly good. I might actually want PT over Ad Sense. 

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Points are the problem with the E-Wing, not so much with the Rogue now at 53, but Gavin and Corran.There is no way I think Corran can go under 60,the dial is too good, plus getting the TL early means your shots will probably be double modded.    I fly him in some combination of torps and R4, realizing that I wont always have torps available I want him and the other E-Wings able to  maneuver.  Corran and 2 Rogues with a variety of torps(depending on how I want to fly) can be real killers.  All three with Advan Protons, or Corran with Plasma and 1 Rogue with Protons, or 3 Rogues with with a combination or Plasma and Protons.  So adding a tech is not for me, but changing Corran is good, but not below 60 and 62 might be the best.

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6 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I had thought tech was supposed to represent the advancements that had been made over the course of 30 years, but then I found out that the T-70 came out before the Empire was even gone. The argument doesn’t work.

I suspect that initially, the Tech slot was meant to give Resistance and FO something that could make them feel like true sub factions, ergo, different.

Now, I think it performs a compartmentalization function as I stated earlier.

6 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Did you all forget that the Quadjumper gets a Tech slot but can be used alongside Lando's falcon?

I'm not trying to be a tool I'm just saying that like, you know.

There's a precedent for Tech mixing with no-techs in the same faction.

Given the broad swath that S&V represents, I think it gets a bye.

OTOH, the tech/no-tech does seem to define the eras.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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