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Wazat

Fifth Brother (pilot) adding damage to Homing Missile

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This was asked today on the wiki and I want to sanity-check my answer.

Fifth Brother (pilot) fires a homing missile.  The opponent has only 2 health and doesn't want to gamble with those 4 dice, so they logically take the 1 damage.  The attack is counted as a hit but we skip both Dice steps.

But we don't skip Neutralize Results and Deal Damage.  Fifth Brother's ability lets him spend 2 force to add a Crit result... killing the defender.

I replied that this works perfectly.  I don't see a flaw in the rules letting it happen, and to me it's a brilliant idea.  Probably not meta-powerful, but a very clever use of the rules.  Probably makes FB a more appealing pilot too.

 

Have I gotten the rules right here?

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2 minutes ago, Derenga said:

In my opinion, you are right! I have just posted a question if his ability also works with Mag Pulse Warheads

Yes.  An attack is declared a hit during Neutralize Results, and Fifth Brother's ability triggers after Neutralize Results.  By then all dice have been cancelled already, so the added crit won't be cancelled with them.

FB seems designed to add extra bite to these normally lightly-damaging missiles.  IMO Homing Missile is the best setup since he doesn't have to hit them with rolled dice, he just has to scare them into taking the 1 damage, which he adds to.  That makes gambling with the attack dice more tempting, creating a very interesting decision for the defender.  With Mag-Pulse, Ion, etc missiles, FB has to hit first, which may require some of the force he needs to hold in reserve, especially against highly defensive targets.

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7 minutes ago, Wazat said:

  With Mag-Pulse, Ion, etc missiles, FB has to hit first, which may require some of the force he needs to hold in reserve, especially against highly defensive targets.

Sure, you have to hit first. But with Mag-Pulse the question is if your crit (the one from the ability) is added before the one from Warheads and thus he is then cancelled or can you add it after the resolving the Mag-Pulse, thus adding a second crit.

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3 minutes ago, Derenga said:

Sure, you have to hit first. But with Mag-Pulse the question is if your crit (the one from the ability) is added before the one from Warheads and thus he is then cancelled or can you add it after the resolving the Mag-Pulse, thus adding a second crit.

I already answered that.  Mag-Pulse cancel dice results during the Neutralize Results step, and the FBCrit lands after that step has ended.

1. Roll attack & defense dice etc

2. Neutralize Results declares it a hit.  Deal 1 crit damage and assign tokens, then cancel all the dice results.

3. After Neutralize Results, FB adds his crit.

4. Deal Damage step: defender suffers the crit.

5. Victory Dance!

Check out Attack to view the steps in greater detail and see for yourself.

 

The more I think about it, the more confident I am in my answer for Homing Missiles... Unless someone discovers there's a problem with my logic, then I'm going with it.  Time to build a fun list!  ^_^

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22 minutes ago, Wazat said:

I already answered that.  Mag-Pulse cancel dice results during the Neutralize Results step, and the FBCrit lands after that step has ended.

1. Roll attack & defense dice etc

2. Neutralize Results declares it a hit.  Deal 1 crit damage and assign tokens, then cancel all the dice results.

3. After Neutralize Results, FB adds his crit.

4. Deal Damage step: defender suffers the crit.

5. Victory Dance!

Check out Attack to view the steps in greater detail and see for yourself.

 

The more I think about it, the more confident I am in my answer for Homing Missiles... Unless someone discovers there's a problem with my logic, then I'm going with it.  Time to build a fun list!  ^_^

But the Mag-Pulse reads that "the defender suffers 1 crit damage and gain 1 deplete and 1 jam token" and because the defender "suffers" damage in the Deal Damage step, I am not that sure if you can add a second crit

Edited by Derenga

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1 minute ago, Derenga said:

But the Mag-Pulse reads that "the defender suffers 1 crit damage and gain 1 deplete and 1 jam token" and because the defender "suffers" damage in the Deal Damage step, I am not that sure if you can add a second crit

No, the Deal Damage step causes the defender to suffer damage from each uncancelled hit and crit.  If other effects during the shot cause a ship to suffer damage, those are separate sources of damage.

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2 minutes ago, Derenga said:

and because the defender "suffers" damage in the Deal Damage step

Not with MPW. The defender suffers the damage during the Neutralize Results step, not the deal damage step. Deal damage step only suffers damage for uncancelled die results. 

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1 minute ago, Wazat said:

No, the Deal Damage step causes the defender to suffer damage from each uncancelled hit and crit.  If other effects during the shot cause a ship to suffer damage, those are separate sources of damage.

Great! So FB is that much better

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Yeah. After reading both threads, I'm quite sure The timing of FB's abbility works with both misiles.

On The other hand, Ion misiles won't work, as The card states "all remaining hit/crit results  inflict ion tokens instead of damage. Neither does concussion. Nice catch 👍

Think I will play  this amazing ship 

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