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manoftomorrow010

A New Generation - Phase II Clones

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Clones came out in September, This rule was printed in December.  I don't remember honestly when they changed/added the rules 

I'm just saying part of creating/selling the game is making the easily accessible and fore-seeing these kind of issues.

You may not think its an issue.  I play very casually with several other players, some of whom are under 18 with limited access to the internet.  Releasing Core rules inherent to playing the game in such a way is sloppy.  I've played with and against clones since they were released, I am on this website several times a week and had honestly never seen or heard of this rule

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1 minute ago, buckero0 said:

Why aren't these printed on the Reference Cards included with all the Clone Trooper cards I've bought? There's plenty of room 

FFG does this with all of their games, not just Legion.  I've seen it with Destiny, Imperial Assault, Armada, X-wing 1.0/2.0 and Legion.

 

I guess same reason they don't do that for Creature Troopers, or Emplacement Troopers, Ground Vehicles, etc. etc.

It's never struck me as a problem lol

 

Just now, GooeyChewie said:

I think the complaint is less about errata and more about the fact that this rule is in the book and not on the cards.  Clone (and Droid) should really be a keyword.

I mean, they're listed as "Clone Troopers" on the card where the unit type is listed. It's no different than having to look up rules for any trooper sub-type. Certainly, they could make it more user-friendly, but some types have too many rules interactions to list on the card. And if you do it with some, but not all, that doesn't really make sense.

But, it's a valid complaint; just one I don't agree with, no big deal!

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2 minutes ago, Gridloc said:

So you know this is how they operate via those other games and instead of just looking in the rule book as you would have with the others, you instead come onto a forum and complain to people.  This seems more like a demand for them to conform to what you want and not set up a system that allows changes to be in one spot vs on every card (which is why points shouldn't have been listed on cards, something xwing2.0 learned).

wasnt' really complaining, Just trying to figure out how to play the game right

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1 minute ago, buckero0 said:

Clones came out in September, This rule was printed in December.  I don't remember honestly when they changed/added the rules 

I'm just saying part of creating/selling the game is making the easily accessible and fore-seeing these kind of issues.

You may not think its an issue.  I play very casually with several other players, some of whom are under 18 with limited access to the internet.  Releasing Core rules inherent to playing the game in such a way is sloppy.  I've played with and against clones since they were released, I am on this website several times a week and had honestly never seen or heard of this rule

The most recent RRG was printed in December. I delete the old RRGs when a new one is posted, so I cannot recall if they printed one with the Clone Wars Core Set release in September, but the rule was definitely in the Core Set rules documents. But, if you didn't buy that box, I can see how you'd miss the rule.

But, I just don't understand why you wouldn't familiarize yourself with the RRG updates, especially when new factions are released.

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12 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

wasnt' really complaining, Just trying to figure out how to play the game right

my point was this isnt' anything new to the FFG world.  Not saying you have to agree with it, but a back and forth with people (complaining or not) most likely won't change how they structure their rule layout.  If  you know from those other games, this is set up this way to make a living rule set much easier to maintain vs printing on cards which ultimately become outdated as rules change.

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43 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

I mean, they're listed as "Clone Troopers" on the card where the unit type is listed. It's no different than having to look up rules for any trooper sub-type.

I think FFG should have the rules for those other trooper sub-types more clearly indicated on the cards as well.  Or at a minimum, put something in bold on the back indicating that the subtype *has* special rules to look up.  Just looking at the cards, there’s no reason for a newer player to expect Clone Troopers to operate any differently rules-wise than Stormtroopers.

 

I don’t expect this conversation will change anything for FFG.  And I figure most people on these forums know the game pretty well and don’t have issues remembering the rules for sub-type troopers.  But perhaps this conversation will help experienced players who demo the game remember that trooper sub-type rules probably aren’t obvious to the potential new player.  As for me, this conversation has made me decide to print out all the sub-type rules and keep that printout handy whenever I play.

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I'm curious to see the mortar launcher in practice, as a heavy weapon. I'm glad it isn't a detachment, but it will take some strategic play to utilize well. You don't necessarily want a 60+ point unit just standing in one spot at range 4 the entire game like the Imperial mortar does. But, you can still move and shoot effectively with good Standby play.

I haven't even fully explored or grasped the Standby exploit much, simply due to the Range 2 limit, but it's a great angle for the Clones, especially with Tauntauns, and Jedi/Sith around. I'm exploring it with the Specialists, Captains, and DP-23s, but I think the Phase IIs will really be able to show off.

There are several ways the Phase II Clones can shoot twice every turn, which, with a Suppressive weapon available, could be really great

Edited by manoftomorrow010

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1 hour ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

There are several ways the Phase II Clones can shoot twice every turn, which, with a Suppressive weapon available, could be really great

Care to share with the class? 😁

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1 minute ago, PalpShuttle said:

Care to share with the class? 😁

You just have to get a 2nd clone squad to cohere a single mini within range 1 of the Phase II position, and perform a Standby with that 2nd squad. Then, the Phase IIs can spend that token, even though they've already shot on their own activation.

The Phase IIs could also use Fire Support, flip their token face down, and then, have a 2nd squad move within range and standby, and possibly allowing the Phase IIs to fire again via that Standby.

It of course, all depends on your opponent triggering said Standby, but with Overwatch making their range 3, and positioning, you can either zone out your opponent, or have them get pelted by a Suppressive weapon twice, with 6(b), Critical 1.

 

I laid such a trap against Operative Vader. Based on where he was positioned, I moved my DP-23 squads forward, and had squads behind them perform Standby actions. The latter squads were out of range of opposing shots, so the Standby tokens were safe, and as soon as Vader moved ahead to attack Rex, he was going to end that movement in range 2 of the DP-23s, so I spent those Standby tokens and unloaded on Vader with those two DP-23 squads.

Even better since the squad you want to be shooting doesn't have to perform the Standby, they can Aim or Dodge, knowing a squad behind them will have a Standby token for them.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

You just have to get a 2nd clone squad to cohere a single mini within range 1 of the Phase II position, and perform a Standby with that 2nd squad. Then, the Phase IIs can spend that token, even though they've already shot on their own activation.

The Phase IIs could also use Fire Support, flip their token face down, and then, have a 2nd squad move within range and standby, and possibly allowing the Phase IIs to fire again via that Standby.

It of course, all depends on your opponent triggering said Standby, but with Overwatch making their range 3, and positioning, you can either zone out your opponent, or have them get pelted by a Suppressive weapon twice, with 6(b), Critical 1.

Ahh gotcha. The way I read it, I thought it was something specific to P2s. Thanks!

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Just now, PalpShuttle said:

Ahh gotcha. The way I read it, I thought it was something specific to P2s. Thanks!

No, sorry haha but, they're the most valuable target for the clone Standby shenanigans, with access to the suppressive weapon and the native training slot allowing for Overwatch.

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3 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

I think the complaint is less about errata and more about the fact that this rule is in the book and not on the cards.  Clone (and Droid) should really be a keyword.

 

edit:  Or at least explained on the back where they explain weapon keywords.

They did it the same for Clone and Droid Troopers that they did for every other unit type. Creature Troopers have very different rules from normal troopers, as do Emplacement Troopers. Ground Vehicles and Repulsor Vehicles have very different rules from each other, not to mention how all Vehicles are very different from Troopers. None of these rules are listed on the cards. I don't think it's unreasonable for FFG to expect people to read the rules. 

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