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missileaway

Cooking the autopilot drone

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I have a stupid little scum list I'm putting together and want to make sure this works like I think it does before I try it.

Autopilot drone starts docked to Lando's Falcon.

First round system phase: Deploy drone. Drone is now undocked in systems phase, so loses a charge.

Activation phase: Falcon bumps drone.

Second round system phase: Drone is undocked so it loses a charge. Then dock drone.

Then fly around with a one charge drone until opportune time to deploy it.

Docking, deploying and the drone losing a charge all share the same timing window of "during the system phase" so I can pick the order in which they happen, correct?

Card and relevant rules portion for reference:

latest?cb=20180625165312

 

Rules reference pag 10 "Dock"

Some abilities allow a ship to be attached to or ride inside another ship. If a card ability instructs a ship to dock with a carrier ship, the docked ship is placed in reserve. A docked ship is able to deploy from its carrier ship during the System Phase by performing the following steps: 1. Choose a non-stationary, non-reverse maneuver on the docked ship’s dial. 2. Using the corresponding template, the docked ship executes the maneuver using the front guides or the rear guides of the carrier ship as if those guides were the docked ship’s starting position. 3. The ship may perform one action. • While a ship is deploying, if the ship would partially execute the maneuver and cannot be placed without overlapping another ship, the ship fails to deploy and stays in reserve. • A ship that deploys during the System Phase does not activate during the Activation Phase. During the System Phase, a ship at range 0 of its carrier ship can dock with it and be placed in reserve. A ship cannot both dock and deploy during the same System Phase. A ship that docks during the System Phase does not resolve its assigned dial or activate during the Activation Phase.

 

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1 hour ago, missileaway said:

Docking, deploying and the drone losing a charge all share the same timing window of "during the system phase" so I can pick the order in which they happen, correct?

Not sure if the Rigged Energy Cells check happens at the same time or not. But the Docking/Deploying does happen at initiative 1. 

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hmm... don't think you can cook the drone the same round that you undock it. it's ability is not in play when i1 abilities get added to the ability queue and resolved - and the ability has a very clear ability's requirement "if you are not docked".

that's just me thinking all the abilities that happens during the systems phase for each initiative have to be added to the ability queue at the same time, though.

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26 minutes ago, meffo said:

hmm... don't think you can cook the drone the same round that you undock it. it's ability is not in play when i1 abilities get added to the ability queue and resolved - and the ability has a very clear ability's requirement "if you are not docked".

that's just me thinking all the abilities that happens during the systems phase for each initiative have to be added to the ability queue at the same time, though.

I guess this is the heart of my question. According to the rules reference, the ability of ships in reserve are inactive unless specified otherwise, but an effect causes them to re-enter the play area:

A ship that is placed in reserve will have an effect that causes it to be placed in the play area. • Ships that are placed in reserve are not removed from the game. • The abilities of a ship in reserve are inactive unless the ability explicitly allows it to be used while it is in reserve.

In this case I guess the effect is undocking the ship. Under ability queue: If resolving an effect from the ability queue triggers additional effects, they are added to the front of the ability queue using the above rules.

Would the effect of undocking trigger the the additional effect of checking for the drone now being undocked and allow it add the ship ability to the queue?

My head hurts now.

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58 minutes ago, missileaway said:

I guess this is the heart of my question. According to the rules reference, the ability of ships in reserve are inactive unless specified otherwise, but an effect causes them to re-enter the play area:

A ship that is placed in reserve will have an effect that causes it to be placed in the play area. • Ships that are placed in reserve are not removed from the game. • The abilities of a ship in reserve are inactive unless the ability explicitly allows it to be used while it is in reserve.

In this case I guess the effect is undocking the ship. Under ability queue: If resolving an effect from the ability queue triggers additional effects, they are added to the front of the ability queue using the above rules.

Would the effect of undocking trigger the the additional effect of checking for the drone now being undocked and allow it add the ship ability to the queue?

My head hurts now.

this is interesting, yes.

this should be relevant.

 

Quote

Q: What is meant by a "requirement" for an ability?

A: A requirement for an ability is a conditional if-statement, such as "if you are tractored" or "if the defender is in your bullseye arc." A ship being in-arc at range for an attack made as part of a triggered ability, such as Snap Shot or Foresight, is also a requirement for that ability.

If an ability's requirements are not met at the time the ability would be added to the queue, it cannot be added to the queue.

If the ability's requirements are not met at the time the ability would be resolved from the queue, the ability is not resolved and is instead removed from the queue. 

If an ability instructs you to make a choice, such as choosing a ship, that is not itself a requirement to initiate an ability.


i'm thinking about the second paragraph here, highlighted it in red. would the ability be added to the queue after you undocked?

it's quite clear this is a triggered ability, with a timing (trigger), "during the the system phase, ..." and a requirement "if you are not docked...".

it is not very clear whether this ability can be resolved during the same system phase the ships undocks, though. on one hand, the ability is not in play when the ship's system phase abilities are added to and resolved from the ability queue - on the other hand, the ability is in play during the system phase when the ship is undocked.

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One thing I'll add as well as that the way the docking mechanics and the Autopilot drone ability are worded is the only timing window that would allow this to happen. If drone was written "At the start of the system phase" or "At the end of the system phase" it would be pretty clear-cut what would work and what wouldn't. Which leads me to think that maybe it was written this way to allow the interaction I outlined. Welp, off to submit a rules question.

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1 hour ago, missileaway said:

One thing I'll add as well as that the way the docking mechanics and the Autopilot drone ability are worded is the only timing window that would allow this to happen. If drone was written "At the start of the system phase" or "At the end of the system phase" it would be pretty clear-cut what would work and what wouldn't. Which leads me to think that maybe it was written this way to allow the interaction I outlined. Welp, off to submit a rules question.

Yeah, i believe @meffois right. During is also pretty clear cut.

 

Quote

During this phase, the sequence of play starts with the ship with the lowest initiative and continues in ascending order.
During this phase, each ship gets an opportunity to choose and resolve any abilities that are explicitly resolved during the System Phase.

Thus, 'During system phase' means, at your initiative in the system phase. Since Rigged Energy Cells is on a pilot card you control, its a player ability (weird as it sounds as you cant really control the ability itself) meaning its not mandatory that it resolves first. So yeah, you'd put docking/undocking in the queue. Since you have to be undocked to put REC in the queue (as that is a requirement of the ability), you cannot resolve it if you are docked, thus cannot enter it into the queue.

 

Quote

If an ability's requirements are not met at the time the ability would be added to the queue, it cannot be added to the queue.

These rulings also allow you to dock without using a charge as well, so long as you put the Dock ability into the queue before the charge, because of this rule.
 

Quote

If the ability's requirements are not met at the time the ability would be resolved from the queue, the ability is not resolved and is instead removed from the queue.


 

Edited by Lyianx

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53 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I feel like someone should point out... the escape craft doesn't have to start the game docked.

Right. I’m just trying to figure out the best way to cook off the three charges so I can turn it into a flying proton bomb without getting the craft shot at and blown up before it detonated.

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Can you bump it your 2nd turn, then lose The third charge in system phase 3 and dock with 0 charges?

This way, it shouldnt be destroyed as it is in reserve and you'd have a ready to go proton bomb...

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18 hours ago, Txousman said:

Can you bump it your 2nd turn, then lose The third charge in system phase 3 and dock with 0 charges?

This way, it shouldnt be destroyed as it is in reserve and you'd have a ready to go proton bomb...

Sure, since the destroy at zero charges effect is checked at the end of the Activation phase you could dock during the System phase with zero charges and launch later on the exact turn you want it to blow up!

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On 1/25/2020 at 6:43 PM, nitrobenz said:

Sure, since the destroy at zero charges effect is checked at the end of the Activation phase you could dock during the System phase with zero charges and launch later on the exact turn you want it to blow up!

Finally ran this tonight and this is exactly what I did. Left it undocked to lose a charge first system phase. Block the Falcon round 1. Lose charge to start round 2, then block Falcon again. System phase of round 3, lose third charge, then dock. Naturally after all that, I never deployed it because it did its job serving as a deterrent to keep my opponent's A-wings from flying in front or behind me. 

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On 1/29/2020 at 12:47 AM, missileaway said:

Finally ran this tonight and this is exactly what I did. Left it undocked to lose a charge first system phase. Block the Falcon round 1. Lose charge to start round 2, then block Falcon again. System phase of round 3, lose third charge, then dock. Naturally after all that, I never deployed it because it did its job serving as a deterrent to keep my opponent's A-wings from flying in front or behind me. 

Hehe. 'bombs' will do that. Even if they dont do damage, they do force your opponent to think about their maneuvers more carefully to avoid it, which makes them a bit more predicable on where they may go, which only helps you. I've had bombs not hit anything, but did force my opponent to use a red reposition action to get away from it, which not only deprived them of a focus/lock token, but stressed them out. Sometimes, that can pay off bigger than the bomb damage. 

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2 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Hehe. 'bombs' will do that. Even if they dont do damage, they do force your opponent to think about their maneuvers more carefully to avoid it, which makes them a bit more predicable on where they may go, which only helps you. I've had bombs not hit anything, but did force my opponent to use a red reposition action to get away from it, which not only deprived them of a focus/lock token, but stressed them out. Sometimes, that can pay off bigger than the bomb damage. 

Completetely agree with you... Just a sismic/proton  bomb  could be The best 3/5 points invested in  a list... A whole swarm staying away all game just To avoid a couple hits... Or when they urgently try To kill your bomber.. Allowing you easy positioning for your aces...😍

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I would argue that the original idea works.

On turn 1 the docked ships' "undocking" goes into the queue along with all other initiative 1 system phase things.

 

But then, after undocking we are (a) still "During the System Phase" and (b) still at initiative step 1.  So I see no reason that the "lose 1 energy" shouldn't now go onto the queue and be resolved. 

My interpretation of this is in rules ref p3 "Ability queue"

Point 3.

"If resolving an effect from the ability queue triggers additional effects, they are added to the front of the ability queue using the above rules."

 

Does deploying constitute an "effect" that triggers additional "effects".   I would argue definitely.

You deploy, you make a maneuver.

You can even perform an action (with all effects as normal).

So after deploying the ship, both the "during system" and "not docked" are still valid, and ship loses its charge.  Actually, I don't think you even have a choice about this. It HAS to lose a charge, because you can't put the charge loss ability on the queue while docked, and hence can't let it trigger and fail before undocking.

Edited by Bort

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