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Thoughts on the new tractor rules?

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@ForceSensitive do let’s remember that most of the ships that use tractor in-game either have no combat depiction, little to no combat time, or a different cannon load out.

No Canon depiction:

IG

JM5K

Scyk

Star Wing

 

Little to no combat time:

Quadjumper

YV-666

Mist Hunter

Lambda

Scimitar

 

Different loadout:

TIE/D (HLC)

Upsilon (Seems like Ion or HLC in Resistance)

B-Wing (AB/Ion)

T-70 (torps or blaster thingy)


That leaves the Shadow Caster and the Nantex, which certainly seem like they exploit their tractor arrays to gain the upper hand in combat, but there’s limited evidence for either.

All that to say evidence is neutral to positive as I understand. Probably missing some though.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

JM5K has been in the Canon comics within the last couple of years. It was part of a pirate wing iirc.

Kinda sorta? A ship that looks very much like one appeared once in one comic. There certainly wasn't any kind of depiction of what it was or could do, or even an official designation (though we have been instructed to assume names are the same as they were in Legends until told otherwise). Still, it hardly counts as a canonical depiction.

Actually, I wondered if someone would bring this up. Kind of off-topic anyway though.

Wookieepedia has a listing for all of these ships, but they cite FFG's game materials as their only references. We can guess that they will appear elsewhere in canon in the future, but as with many things (Jan Ors, Guri, TIE Punisher, etc.) FFG's use of them isn't definitive proof that they are canonical.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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The most common reason stated for taking a stress to rotate 90° is that the pilot is resisting the tractor. My question is why can't any ship (friendly or opponent) do this?? Shouldn't any pilot be able to resist the default action of the tractor? Pilots pull stressful maneuvers like k-turns and 0-stops all the time. 

As a scum player, this seems a little more fair for messing with my tractor because some tin can is "abusing" it. Also, a scum player can talk about fairness ... we just don't have be fair 👽

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The Quadjumper is my favorite ship, so you know that I am all for tractoring things. It is a different mechanic that aims more for board control than straight damage. I like the concept, but am not a huge fan of the recent change. I like that they are trying to give the opponent options, but I think this could have been done better. I prefer the concept of either removing the tractor token to move another ship. This way getting more than the minimum amount of tractor tokens means more.

I also had the idea of having tractored ships immediately reduce agility, but not being able to move a ship until the end-phase when tokens are removed. This makes it so the attacker still feels like there is a benefit to tractoring, and the defender has time to plan and not feel cheated out of their careful flying. They might want to change the Nantex ship ability to allow it to move immediately when tractored to allow for re-positioning if they do this though.

I like the Nantex concept, but agree it need some tweeking. I'm afraid to fly it because it gets so much hate. Quadjumpers are still great, but their survivability just got reduced by people being able to just rotate for a stress after my careful re-positioning of them. My biggest complaint about tractor mechanic related things is the Ketsu crew card. It would be a hard sell at 1-2 points, there is no way I would ever pay 5 points for that ability.

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4 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Again, Tie fighter wasn't Canon. Doubly not now. 😒 I feel that tractor was introduced there for the same reason it's introduced here, simple mechanics to add artificial complexity to a game, but without canonical support for how and why. But the same methods you used it in that game never get demonstrably used in the subsequent Canon of the day either. For all the tractor beams that were out there, you never once got a movie scene where the fighters were tractored. Death Star is a great example, it never just tractored Luke into the wall. Which would have put a end to that rebellion right quick wouldn't it? LMAO 🤣

Two things:  1.  I'm not entirely sure the trench down which the Rebels ran even had tractor beams in it.  2.  Tractor beams in a station for helping ships dock or keeping them in place are likely quite different from the weaponized tractors in TIE Fighter designed specifically for fighter combat.

As for TIE Fighter not being canon, I agree.  However, I wasn't trying to list canon sources; I was specifically answering the question:

On 1/18/2020 at 9:17 PM, ForceSensitive said:

Any time it was actually in combat on screen?

And TIE Fighter, it must be admitted, has been on a good many computer screens.

Edited by JJ48

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4 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Different loadout:

TIE/D (HLC)

Upsilon (Seems like Ion or HLC in Resistance)

B-Wing (AB/Ion)

T-70 (torps or blaster thingy)

The TIE Defender explicitly has a tractor beam, and is probably the original/primary reason we even had it as an option for X-Wing TMG.

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On 1/18/2020 at 10:47 PM, Darth Meanie said:

So is this all happening because of the Nantex??  Because if it is, this is the same path the game went down with the JM5K.  All kinds of in-game collateral damage to nerf 1 ship.

Agreed. This is the third rule change because of this ship. Can we stahp changing the rules and maybe just errata it to say "fully execute" or something? I was onboard for the rule changes as the hadn't done any card errata since launch, but with this last RR the errata'd Goji's ability, Y-Wing Oddball's ability, and Composure. Composure makes some sense, but Oddball and Goji were not hurting anything and for some reason warranted changes. If we are willing to errata pilots that aren't affecting the meta, why are we adding in the ability queue and changing tractor mechanics twice?

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1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

Agreed. This is the third rule change because of this ship. Can we stahp changing the rules and maybe just errata it to say "fully execute" or something? I was onboard for the rule changes as the hadn't done any card errata since launch, but with this last RR the errata'd Goji's ability, Y-Wing Oddball's ability, and Composure. Composure makes some sense, but Oddball and Goji were not hurting anything and for some reason warranted changes. If we are willing to errata pilots that aren't affecting the meta, why are we adding in the ability queue and changing tractor mechanics twice?

I'm also confused as to why FFG are tiptoeing around the Nantex and Ensnare so much, but the other examples you use are all perfectly justifiable:

Y-wing Oddball was a proofreading error caused by FFG forgetting how to use the copy-paste function when taking the ability from his V-19 & ARC-170 pilot cards. It was going to cause confusion, so errata was required to bring him back in line with the other two.

As for Goji, I find it telling that his ability was changed just before Cluster Mines were released. This tells me that, while he might not have been a problem now, he might have been about to become one because of Clusters. And, to be honest, I'm not particularly excited at the thought of a whole squad that can go to 6 agility with only 2 mine drops, so I'm going to call it a fair call on FFG's part.

As for the ability queue, that was the playerbase's fault, not FFG's. The queue has literally been there since launch. But for some reason no one paid it any attention until it was needed, at which point everyone acted like it had been sprung upon them all of a sudden.

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3 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

The TIE Defender explicitly has a tractor beam, and is probably the original/primary reason we even had it as an option for X-Wing TMG.

Not in Canon.

If you're going by Legends then there's really no case against tractor beams.

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On 1/18/2020 at 5:18 PM, KCDodger said:

You know what I think about Tractor Beams?

That I just accept whatever the f**k my opponent says it does, because it'll change by the next time I play X-Wing anyway, because Tractor Beams just don't make any **** sense every time they're rejiggered.

I don't give a s**t about tractor beams because their understanding and use has less staying power than Schrodinger's Cat.

I mean, I won a rather large tournament because of them when 2.0 dropped, top 8ed another system open and they have been everyone's "boogie-man" since nantex came out as well. So I'm not sure that outlook is really well thought out.

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Hate new mechanic. Fully execute woulda been a big step in the right direction. Or with ensnare when passing the tractor token, the Nantex receives a stress token. This limits their ability to stay on the same target over and over. Or the ship can only be tractored using forward guides. Not barrel rolling. Letting the opponent pick a 90 degree turn is kinda dumb.

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48 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Played with tractors the other day and the new mechanic felt about right. Unlike grappling/landing struts, the new tractor ruling is straightforward in practice and easy to understand as you move the ship on the table.

I don't know why everyone says struts aren't straightforward.  They are relatively simple if you aren't daunted by the amount of words the effect needs.

 

Except for weird corner cases from rolling off the rock, then hard-turning back on the next turn.  The droids just get confused from flipping back and forth too fast.

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15 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

 

Except for weird corner cases from rolling off the rock, then hard-turning back on the next turn.

Corner case? Are they closing the struts after the turn? They should be if they aren't.

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58 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

Except for weird corner cases from rolling off the rock, then hard-turning back on the next turn. 

I wouldn't call that a weird corner case - when I've played vs droids, they rolled off rocks multiple times each game, and then I had to consider how the obstacles would affect them next turn if they ran over them. Struts aren't that difficult to manage as a ship is actually activating, but they are a lot to think through when you've got several of them in different stages of flipping and you're setting dials.

42 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Corner case? Are they closing the struts after the turn? They should be if they aren't.

Correct, but they ignore all obstacles (even gas) while executing their maneuver and still get to perform an action as a result.

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6 hours ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

I mean, I won a rather large tournament because of them when 2.0 dropped, top 8ed another system open and they have been everyone's "boogie-man" since nantex came out as well. So I'm not sure that outlook is really well thought out.

Honestly, not all of my takes are good.

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6 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Not in Canon.

If you're going by Legends then there's really no case against tractor beams.

Ah, I didn't realize they changed that. Thanks.

2 hours ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Think FFG should release a consolidated rule book. I am fine with rule changes but not when you have very little clue what all the rules are. Just do an annual consolidated rules?

Don't we already have that in the RRG?

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7 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Y-wing Oddball was a proofreading error caused by FFG forgetting how to use the copy-paste function when taking the ability from his V-19 & ARC-170 pilot cards. It was going to cause confusion, so errata was required to bring him back in line with the other two.

As for Goji, I find it telling that his ability was changed just before Cluster Mines were released. This tells me that, while he might not have been a problem now, he might have been about to become one because of Clusters. And, to be honest, I'm not particularly excited at the thought of a whole squad that can go to 6 agility with only 2 mine drops, so I'm going to call it a fair call on FFG's part.

As for the ability queue, that was the playerbase's fault, not FFG's. The queue has literally been there since launch. But for some reason no one paid it any attention until it was needed, at which point everyone acted like it had been sprung upon them all of a sudden.

I understood Oddball, but he's kinda junk so I'd rather them errata the Torrent and the ARC-170. Goji makes sense, but FFG knew Cluster Mines were coming out, and I don't think hanging around a bunch of cluster mines is a good, legitimate strategy anyway (and we'll never know).

As for the ability queue, I should be more specific. They changed the ability queue to disallow entering the stack if the trigger cannot be met at the beginning of a timing window.

In any case, yes, they are weirdly tip-toeing around the Nantex and Ensnare. 

Edited by 5050Saint

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7 minutes ago, william1134 said:

I am out of the loop with x-wing and haven't played for a while now....  Can somebody please explain what these new tractor rules are?

In summary, if you get flung by an opponent's Tractor tokens, you get the opportunity to take a stress token to rotate 90 degrees.

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