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Starhawk & Onager In Stores Jan 31st!

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6 hours ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

I will say that in our first game, it was very easy to defend against. All you need, essentially, is one nav token held in reserve and you can escape any Speed 0 tractor with minimal difficulty. On an SSD with Vanto or Comms Net-supported ship? Token generation is a breeze. On a different ship? Who knows, it might be more effective.

I think the key is to tractor down a ship that’s already activated and then attack it with as many of your other vessels as possible before the defender has a chance to activate and (potentially) change speeds again. But with a Starhawk costing at least 150 points with the tractor beam in place, you might not have many other ships to work with.

 

I think my main problem isn't really with the Magnites but with the Starhawk being so blah. Mark I and II differ only in their armaments...

Then I pay for an upgrade icon that only has one card to use with it (for Rebels)

So very likely I'm going to use Concord if I don't want those cost-of-opportunities for using the Starhawk to count less. 

The jury is still out, it could perform really well but on paper it seems neutered before it even got to the tables. Going to try some builds out this Sunday. 

Edited by eliteone

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33 minutes ago, eliteone said:

I think my main problem isn't really with the Magnites but with the Starhawk being so blah. Mark I and II differ only in their armaments...

Then I pay for an upgrade icon that only has one card to use with it (for Rebels)

So very likely I'm going to use Concord if I don't want those cost-of-opportunities for using the Starhawk to count less. 

The jury is still out, it could perform really well but on paper it seems neutered before it even got to the tables. Going to try some builds out this Sunday. 

I think the difference is you’re not necessarily paying for the upgrade icon.

Its not like the Interdictor where the options to put in it are super cheap and therefore most of their cost is integrated - I think the Hawk is fairky well worth it’s points without Magnites.

 

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So I haven’t yet seen the rules for Salvo... just to be clear, if I have say, a rear arc armament of one black, one blue, one red, and I get attacked from long range, I can only use Salvo to fire back with one red, right? In other words, the Salvo counterattack obeys all normal range restrictions?

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14 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

So I haven’t yet seen the rules for Salvo... just to be clear, if I have say, a rear arc armament of one black, one blue, one red, and I get attacked from long range, I can only use Salvo to fire back with one red, right? In other words, the Salvo counterattack obeys all normal range restrictions?

Yes, and you can't add a die. 1 red stays 1 red. But you may reroll. (Look it up at the wiki: Salvo)

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"How much do you pay for an ISD with Motti?"

"At least 136"

"Well, this is 140, has more Shields, easier arcs to double with, and about the same amount of Dice, but doesn't take your Admiral slot to have 14 hull.  It is only Speed 2 Though.  Get a second Officer Slot though..."

"Huh.  Its almost as if it balances out somewhat..."

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

"How much do you pay for an ISD with Motti?"

"At least 136"

"Well, this is 140, has more Shields, easier arcs to double with, and about the same amount of Dice, but doesn't take your Admiral slot to have 14 hull.  It is only Speed 2 Though.  Get a second Officer Slot though..."

"Huh.  Its almost as if it balances out somewhat..."

 

I dont hate the Starhawk, just dont like the playstyle it brings. And Speed 2 makes the SH much less versatile than an ISD.

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2 hours ago, RapidReload said:

I dont hate the Starhawk, just dont like the playstyle it brings. And Speed 2 makes the SH much less versatile than an ISD.

And to be fair, an ISD has a native D. Retro or can get one on the cheap, and it's suite of defensive tokens is all to mitigate damage. 

And the ISD I, II, Kuat and Cymoom have different roles and playstyles. 

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Seems like first last is all that's needed to get work done with Magnites.  Most of the fleet probably won't get to shoot a speed 0 target, but that way the Starhawk can double arc and make it sad.

It's not hard to get 6 activations, 7 is doable, and Bail is a thing if a bid isn't appealing.  Cham or even Jyn + slicers could be a good way to supress the navs if needed.

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1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Seems like first last is all that's needed to get work done with Magnites.  Most of the fleet probably won't get to shoot a speed 0 target, but that way the Starhawk can double arc and make it sad.

It's not hard to get 6 activations, 7 is doable, and Bail is a thing if a bid isn't appealing.  Cham or even Jyn + slicers could be a good way to supress the navs if needed.

Yeah, I think we’re going to see a lot of people surprised by how much it sucks to get double-arced by this mutha’ with no usable defense tokens. SSDs will be crippled, ISDs, Onagers, & Interdictors might limp away. Everything else will just melt.

It could be a Boarding Troopers Avenger on steroids.

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2 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Seems like first last is all that's needed to get work done with Magnites.  Most of the fleet probably won't get to shoot a speed 0 target, but that way the Starhawk can double arc and make it sad.

It's not hard to get 6 activations, 7 is doable, and Bail is a thing if a bid isn't appealing.  Cham or even Jyn + slicers could be a good way to supress the navs if needed.

*Sees Starhawk with Magnites across the table* 

Do I take second player or pick its Surprise Attack, Rift Ambush or Hyperspace Migration? Hmmmm...

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24 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

*Sees Starhawk with Magnites across the table* 

Do I take second player or pick its Surprise Attack, Rift Ambush or Hyperspace Migration? Hmmmm...

Don't forget Asteroid Tactics Agate.

So one can brace every.  Single.  Round.  Pretty much no matter what.

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On 1/26/2020 at 1:34 PM, Rmcarrier1 said:

San Diego. I ordered direct from FFG.

So has everyone (at least in US) that pre-ordered with FFG have both the Starhawk and Onager already?

 

I ordered with Miniature Market, and haven't gotten any kind of update or email. Now I'll be tardy to the party.

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3 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Seems like first last is all that's needed to get work done with Magnites.  Most of the fleet probably won't get to shoot a speed 0 target, but that way the Starhawk can double arc and make it sad.

It's not hard to get 6 activations, 7 is doable, and Bail is a thing if a bid isn't appealing.  Cham or even Jyn + slicers could be a good way to supress the navs if needed.

I'm just glad FFG missed the ship date to get them legal for the PDX Regional.

I have no idea how a list could be created to deal with a Magnites last/first trick.  That sounds...super annoying...

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18 minutes ago, xanderf said:

I'm just glad FFG missed the ship date to get them legal for the PDX Regional.

I have no idea how a list could be created to deal with a Magnites last/first trick.  That sounds...super annoying...

Just stay away from it. ;)

To get to Speed 0, the Starhawk must at some point travel at Speed 1. In other words, not hard to avoid. If the player is padding out their fleet with cheap flotillas or corvettes for extra activation, one could always simply go after those instead. If, on the other hand, they're building a fleet around their Starhawk (like in an SSD list), then they probably won't have a huge activation advantage. I'm not saying it isn't possible, and perhaps I'm naive, but it doesn't seem so scary having actually played against one (still a mighty cool ship, mind you, but I'm not sure the super weapon is an obligatory upgrade for the Starhawk).

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11 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Just stay away from it. ;)

To get to Speed 0, the Starhawk must at some point travel at Speed 1. In other words, not hard to avoid. 

That's not exactly true.  The max speed it CAN go is only 2.  You can drop from 2 to 0 with a nav token banked and a nav dial - that's trivially easy to do in one turn.  Heck, with Raymus Antilles onboard you wouldn't even need to plan for it to have a token banked, or otherwise have any other ship supporting you with tokens - you could just do it on a whim with a nav dial.

And there isn't any counter to that - that feels a bit like an NPE, I have to say.  I mean, even Konstantine can't drop an enemy to a speed its defense tokens are disabled, and he's 23 points!

If the game was errata'd to reduce the impact of being involuntarily stopped it would let this be a bit more reasonable.  Like, I dunno, limit a ship to defending using only a single non-exhausted defense token max if at speed 0.  Or maybe let defense tokens work normally, but any defense tokens spent at speed 0 is discarded.  Something like that, where you'd have some kind of counter-play to it - not EASY counter-play, necessarily, but you could at least make decisions to sacrifice some capabilities in order to manage the risk from it.  Currently, you can't do anything.  That's NPE.

Edited by xanderf

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