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Ronu

Special Forces Aces

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Onto LeHuse probably going to be a double mod beat stick. 
 

He’s going to enjoy they TIE/ba’s and their lock gimmicks. Also a LeHuse+Stridan w/Hux + others. Will likely be more effective once that Xi shuttle comes around. 
 

Does he get loaded with missiles or just the S/F Gunner? 

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1 hour ago, Ronu said:

Onto LeHuse probably going to be a double mod beat stick. 
 

He’s going to enjoy they TIE/ba’s and their lock gimmicks. Also a LeHuse+Stridan w/Hux + others. Will likely be more effective once that Xi shuttle comes around. 
 

Does he get loaded with missiles or just the S/F Gunner? 

In Hyperspace you go with the S/F gunner as there is no targeting synchronizer.  

Extended is much more complicated.  

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A lot of people are talking about getting Phasma to the end game but she does nothing special end game. Putting her with anyone of greater end game value just puts a bigger target on the greater threat. We will see I guess if anyone gets her to work. There may be some play there with the abundance of efficiency across the faction.

I think LeHuse will be more impactful at I5. Natural fit with Rivas as pointed out but also with the ba. Their ability to lock most turns and still dodge arcs means you’ll likely have locks lying around, and now you can use that lock on the highest value attack. If you take Holo or Vonreg you can also know the results of their shooting first. Otherwise you have a normal single modded SF attack at high init.

 

Edited by dsul413

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3 hours ago, reqent said:

Phasma is interesting in that you can spread damage to activate fanatical.  This is a list I plan on trying with her.  Basically she engages with the mini swarm and holo cuts in when the opportunity presents itself.  


View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z385XW186WW182WWY267X181WWY267X181WWY267X181WWY382X319WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Slight variant:

Captain Phasma (39)    
    Fanatical (2)    
        
"Rush" (57)    

Omega Squadron Ace (28)    
    Fanatical (2)    
    
Omega Squadron Expert (34)    
    Fanatical (2)    
    
Omega Squadron Expert (34)    
    Fanatical (2)    
    
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZhZ200Z385X181WWWWWY386XWWY267X181WWY285X181WWWWWY285X181WWWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Basically there's no unequivocally good endgame condition against this list. Phasma hangs out by Rush all game. You can take out the Omegas but they just get stronger as you go. In the end, you will have to face an I6 Rush unless you can nuke him in one turn, and he still gets a revenge shot. And if you take him out first you're still facing off with Fanatical Omegas backed by Phasma.

You really have to focus-fire or you're going to be dealing with multiple monsters all at once.

Only real issue is action choices. Lock for offense, evade for defense, but it's kind of a tough call. Like expertise, Fanatical makes your action choices pretty... interesting.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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4 hours ago, dsul413 said:

A lot of people are talking about getting Phasma to the end game but she does nothing special end game.

It’s less to do with what Phasma does at the end game as to how she gets there. If Phasma can be used properly she ends up at the end game by hook or by crook, more often than not. Phasma is also likely to have taken little to no damage at all making her a tough ship to face once she is there as the S/F’s are solid against most ships with their tools.
 

So the trick becomes if you know she’s likely to be at the end game how do you make her a solid piece once there. 

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Just now, DR4CO said:

But you could already do this for Kylo and have a much better end game piece?

But he costs twice as much and doesn't turn on your other ships' abilities.

She's not a replacement for Kylo; she's just different. And you're not going to outbid the I5-6 aces, but outbidding I4 should be a cake walk.

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37 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

She's not a replacement for Kylo; she's just different. 

This is a big thing to keep in mind. Phasma is a really interesting and unique tool. She’s not going to fit a lot of play styles. As someone who plays a lot of Swarms this type of piece has me quite intrigued. Others are trying to fit her into a Synergistic combo-wing, I have my doubts on this but other play styles may make it work. 

The S\F’s are turning into an interesting survival knife of the FO ships. Part of why I started the thread to get a better understanding of what these new tools might be capable of.

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On 1/14/2020 at 12:57 AM, Ronu said:

Lt. LeHuse is I5 with a Vessery’esq ability.

Personally I’ve only used Vessery one time in 2.0. Has anyone used Vessery in any significant way to know if he’s still the ridiculously hard hitter he was in 1.0 just using the X7 title? 

LeHuse basically is getting the same setup but benefits from a much lower cost cause he’s spending the other lock instead of just getting his own. On the Surface he looks like he should be crushing red dice just like Vessery.  Extended would be even better with the use of Targeting Synchronizer and a variety of Missiles.

@Parakitor @Magnus Grendel @ficklegreendice Anyone else who does a lot of work with defenders and Vessery in General?

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@Ronu that's a nope from me. I've played defenders twice in 2.0: once was Rexler Brath with 3 Alpha Sq. Pilots, and the other was Soontir Fel and 2 Delta Sq. Pilots. I have yet to put Vessery on the table, and if I do, it will likely be in Epic, which is a whole different animal (huge ships with three locks? Vessery loves that!)

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On 1/15/2020 at 8:41 PM, Ronu said:

LeHuse basically is getting the same setup but benefits from a much lower cost cause he’s spending the other lock instead of just getting his own. On the Surface he looks like he should be crushing red dice just like Vessery.  Extended would be even better with the use of Targeting Synchronizer and a variety of Missiles.

The issue with Targeting Synchronizer is that Passive Sensors is 3 points, while TSynch is 6.  There simply isn't going to be any 200 point First Order missile list where it makes more sense to go with TSynch over Passive Sensors on SFs.

Where LeHuse seems to make sense to me is paired with Lieutenant Rivas.  27 point TIE/fo, only 2 points more than a probably-playable Epsilon.  Kylo, LeHuse (with gunner), and Rivas leaves 48 points.  Vonreg, LeHuse (gunner), Rivas leaves 67 points to play with.  Basically, Rivas crashes into Range 1-2, LeHuse Focuses, Vonreg or Kylo or whoever takes a Lock, and Rivas gets one too (whenever an enemy at Range 1-2 takes a Red or Orange token, Rivas can acquire a Lock on them).  LeHuse spends Rivas' lock, since it's of lower value than anyone else's.  It's even possible to combine it with Mag-Pulse Warheads.  LeHuse spends his lock on the attack, and if it hits, there's a Jam and a Deplete token, and Rivas gets his Lock back.

That sounds like it's a bit too many moving parts, but I think it's probably more reasonable than it looks.  LeHuse is, at worst, an Init 5 TIE/sf at a price that's probably fair--49 with Gunner.  I'd take Crack Shot in Extended, but I probably skip a talent in Hyperspace.  Hyperspace probably doesn't offer anything handy for LeHuse in the Tech/Sensor/Mod slots that's mandatory.  Rivas is marginally more expensive than a blocker Epsilon, but with a nice perk.  The other two ships in the list (Kylo + 1, or Vonreg + 1) can just do whatever they'd otherwise be trying to do.

Example Squads:

  • Lieutenant Rivas (-) 27
  • Lieutenant LeHuse (Special Forces Gunner) 49
  • Holo (Proud Tradition) 56 - possibly switch to Quickdraw if Extended
  • Major Vonreg (Daredevil) 59
  • Total 193, bid 9.

 

  • Lieutenant Rivas (-) 27
  • Lieutenant LeHuse (Fanatical, Special Forces Gunner) 51
  • Kylo Ren (-) 76
  • Scorch (Fanatical) 35
    • OK, so I'm not really clear on what a good pick for the best 4th ship should be here, or on Kylo upgrades, but it's pretty flexible.  Just bring anything somewhat reasonable.
  • Total 189, bid 11.
On 1/15/2020 at 8:41 PM, Ronu said:

Personally I’ve only used Vessery one time in 2.0. Has anyone used Vessery in any significant way to know if he’s still the ridiculously hard hitter he was in 1.0 just using the X7 title?

I can never get around to flying Defenders other than Deltas. :P

At least on paper, the awkward thing about Vessery is that Init 4.  It's tricky to find someone who wants to have a lock in place before Vessery shoots, but won't spend it until after Vessery shoots.  Echo and Whisper don't work like that.  They'll get the lock before they shoot, and intend to spend it.  Maybe Vader or Maarek Stele, but the list Tetris doesn't always make sense.  Certainly, Jendon doesn't make sense: why bother then with Vessery?  Just take a cheaper Defender.  Fifth Brother/Seventh Sister might make sense: they're keen on taking locks, and can be engage after Vessery.  But then, you've still got a list dominated by Init 4, and why would an Imperial player do that to themselves?

Edited by theBitterFig

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On 1/15/2020 at 8:41 PM, Ronu said:

 

@Parakitor @Magnus Grendel @ficklegreendice Anyone else who does a lot of work with defenders and Vessery in General?

Not so much this edition due to cost

The presence of fcs/Jenson has also made Vessery a lot less attractive than Brath, in my eyes. 

 

Plus, after the entirety of first Ed, it's good to change things up occasionally!

 

Anyway, in theory you'll want dudes that TL a lot...which, in this day and age, are inquisitors

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On 1/15/2020 at 7:41 PM, Ronu said:

Anyone else who does a lot of work with defenders and Vessery in General?

 

4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Not so much this edition due to cost

Going up 3 points for a substantially lower initiative and a less synergistic ability that's powerful but much harder to trigger just rarely seems worth it.

He really ought to be cheaper than Rexler. Maybe equal cost but certainly not more.

All the named defenders are priced like designer shoes anyway. They should be 5ish points over the I4, not 10ish.

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Now that we’ve had a solid 4-6 weeks to digest things. Just curious on how accurate or close we were on what we saw on paper vs actual gameplay. 
 

Captain Phasma: for myself she’s been an absolute monster. Just plain hard to kill and able to get to the end game quickly and easily. Often not even being shot at and if given tough wingmates taking minimal if any damage whatsoever. Curious if those saying combo wing with Tavison have gotten the results they sought.

Lt. LeHuse: personally I haven’t gotten him on the table. Lack of available games being the main reason. I’ve seen a few list state they were going to try him but have not read much on results he’s getting. So curious what he had going on. 
 

Backdraft: seems mostly unchanged at this point with all the new tools. Still consistent but also not standing out too keenly. 
 

Quickdraw: Not a lot going on with the Ace due to HS legal issues. Dude loves him some of the power cells though. 

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LeHuse is OK. Mainly useful for the initiative. The ability is cool in theory but I've only really got use out of it when another cheap friend has no shot and doesn't need a green token for defense. Cheapest way to get a high-init mag pulse carrier in FO if that's of value.

Phasma is best with passive sensors and a munition of some sort. All of the other SF's suffer from the lack of defensive mod when using sensors but she (assuming she has friends nearby) doesn't care about being a target. I don't think she's worth running without that combo.

Backdraft is perfect with nothing attached. Advanced optics is good if you want to splurge, fanatical if you want to splurge slightly less. Gunner is a waste of points as adding advanced optics would get you more utility for 6 points less.

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8 minutes ago, Pleugim said:

LeHuse is OK. Mainly useful for the initiative. The ability is cool in theory but I've only really got use out of it when another cheap friend has no shot and doesn't need a green token for defense. Cheapest way to get a high-init mag pulse carrier in FO if that's of value.

An important thing to note is that LeHuse can only spend the lock to mod dice. The pilot ability doesn’t satisfy the lock requirement for missiles. Targeting sync is required if the plan is to use another’s lock to fire missiles from LeHuse. 

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Right, he has to have his own lock to get the missile off. I'm just coming from the thought that mag pulse as an ordinance is really only useful on the I5 and above initiative pilots. Of what FO has only Kylo, Holo, and Vonreg could make use of it and all are much pricier than LeHuse.

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Backdraft is settled keep it lean.

Phasma I've only ran her once so I cant draw a conclusion yet. 

I've used LeHuse quite a bit.  He can punch above his weight but it takes set up.  He will melt though.  He works well in 5 ship FO salad lists. 

I'm hoping the Xi shuttle will make lehuse more viable.  An Agent Terex calculate plus a lock could really help him.  

 

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1 hour ago, dsul413 said:

Is Phasma ever scary enough end-game for the opponent to care about her ability? At I4?

Phasma has a pretty consistent overall game from my experience with her. As she nears the endgame she can go from defensive to offensive fairly easily if she still has wingmates to pawn damage to. So she starts taking locks and then if she doesn’t need that she has double mods and wears you down.

So from a certain perspective yes she can be scary enough. Not in a Fel or Jedi type of way but still scary because she’s so difficult to actually get off the board without a lot of help.

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On 1/14/2020 at 5:38 AM, GreenDragoon said:

Why do you want 1.0 back? Defense creep and mod stacking were shown to be horrible for the game!

I think that's pretty neat, allows all 4+their SF gunner, with 4 points to spare

he/she didnt say that, and Lightweight frame didnt do that.

it only allowed you to roll up to 3 greens IF there were more reds than greens.  it was very well balanced and most of us viewed lightweight frame as a positive mechanic

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10 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

he/she didnt say that, and Lightweight frame didnt do that.

it only allowed you to roll up to 3 greens IF there were more reds than greens.  it was very well balanced and most of us viewed lightweight frame as a positive mechanic

If we brought it in to second edition, would we change anything to it? Would it be restricted to Empire and FO? Otherwise, Luke would love it. Small and Medium base only, but more expensive on the Medium base? Perhaps it would make Reapers more usable. I definitely think it is workable to bring this upgrade over.

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4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

If we brought it in to second edition, would we change anything to it? Would it be restricted to Empire and FO? Otherwise, Luke would love it. Small and Medium base only, but more expensive on the Medium base? Perhaps it would make Reapers more usable. I definitely think it is workable to bring this upgrade over.

Keeping it Empire only/Tie only makes sense to me.  keeping upgrades focused to certain ships lowers the chance of unintended power spikes. for example B-wings probably shouldn't have something like that.

Titles/configurations can help the weaker ships in other factions.

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