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Clone Wars core box and ship predictions

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1 minute ago, Grathew said:

I believe the Mc80 in game is the 1,400m version. But I've read lengths from 1,200m to 2,600m

According to Wookapedia MC 80's in general are between 1200-1500 meters, when you look up the specific versions Home One (MC80A) type between 1200-1300 meters, Liberty type between 1200-1500 meters, MC80B (legends only) about 1200 meters, and MC80 Evacuation (legends only) between 1200-1600 meters. Now the MC80A and Liberty type are canon lengths, however Home One and the others are legends only, but even then Home One is listed as standard length of 1200 meters with some individual ships of 1400 or more meters.

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My guess is that they'll pretty much follow the pattern of the core set, should they do a dual faction core. So Arquitens (new mold, significant differences in shape between imperial and Republic), Charger and 4 V-19 squadrons vs Munificent with 6 Vulture Squadrons. Both Consular and Munificent fall into the iconic category and the kittens takes care of having a triangle (diamond shape really, but close enough) factor.

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I would be very surprised if any ships they've already released get a remold to be in CW. Why would they when FFG has already put in the expense of designing a Pelta or Arquitens? Sure, there's some difference in specifics between the eras but I can see that being an easy/cost effective shortcut to release.

And IMO (as the kids say, if they still do. I'm old) I can easily see the Venator being a medium base since there is some variation in the size of ships in each size class. Wookieepedia has the Interdictor class star Destroyer at about the same length as the Venator and it's a medium. The CR-90 and Gladiator are both small bases despite a 450 meter difference. FFG could make the Venator a medium and just balance it out on capability and points cost.

Edited by Grinoch
Typo

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I am fairly excited for this game but I am also apprehensive about how it will turn out in the long run. We have had Armada for going on 5 years and there have been almost no releases for it after the first 3, and I know they promised more speed on this but the Civil War period has WAY more material to draw from for new ships. Getting 2 squadron packs will be a challenge enough, let alone a dozen or so ships per faction without getting real **** obscure. And I also think they are plain stupid if they dont design this from the start as being transferable to Armada: CW as I am calling it. They get to benefit from selling us card packs to upgrade, can move these over as either rebel or imperial ships, both in some cases and hopefully many, and its an easy way to really make a Scum faction out of almost nothing. Older ships make up the brunt of the faction, a few Rebel and Imperial ships make appearances, and then a handful of unique options come with it. But I don't really trust FFG as of late, my miniature game gets hardly any notice, my boardgames get re-released and then abandoned leaving me in the lurch for old expansions I didn't get to and holding new games that dont seem likely to be supported, and so on. We shall see I suppose

 

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Consider me apprehensive as well; however, I think if they were going to transition into a new "edition" with the Clone Wars, that they would include compatible pieces with the newest releases like they did with X-wing. I know it could still be months (or years? 😉 because, Armada timetable) before a potential new faction core is released, but I would be a bit surprised if they went into a full 2.0. Besides, Armada is a much larger "premium" commitment in terms of product costs. I don't know if they could pull off a straight 2.0 switch without really risking their consumer base.

That being said, the lack of inventory on larger online sites like MiniatureMarket and CoolStuffInc (though they always seem to be running low) makes me have just a smidgen of doubt about my above thoughts.

Edited by puntspeedchunk

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1 hour ago, ISD Avenger said:

I think Venator will have to be large. Everything else Republic is small or medium I think. Just for the spread I think it will end up large.

I think the question should be does the GAR need a large based ship? You could very easily give it large base stats on a medium base. You could have a 110 pt Venator with 10 hull 3/3/2 shields, command 3, squadrons 5, and engineering 4 while sitting on a medium base. 

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@gredert Your post makes me really curious about how PT squadrons will turn out. Here's a guess for a possible packaging order:

Republic Squadrons I (early war):

V-19 Torrent 

BTL-B Y-Wing

Delta-7 Aethersprite

Nu-Class attack shuttle (relay and strategic, having these keywords in the 1st squadron box will probably be necessary

Republic II (late war):

Z-95 Headhunter, obviously clone version

ARC-170 (rogue?)

Eta-2-Actis Jedi Interceptor, would love two ship stances for the Jedi fighters BTW.

V-Wing

Seppies I (early war?):

Vulture Droid Fighter (duh) Could a combo of swarm and bomber work here?

Hyena-Bomber

Sheathipede

Nantex? Alternatively Doku's ship to have a "hero" vessel? Ventress's Fighter could work for that too.

Clankers II:

Tri-Fighter (obviously counter)

Rogue-Class?

Boarding Vessel (Raid)

Belbulab

It's really not that easy to find 8 prominent ships for the CIS.

Also, what about a clone wars themed rogues and villains II (Twilight, Azuituc, Sugis ship, Hounds Tooth, Sith Infiltrator, Zygerian Freighter, .Doku's sailer...) or a dual faction auxiliaries pack (N-1, Zygerian Starhopper, Umbaran fighter, Nantex...)?

Edited by LennoxPoodle

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1 hour ago, LennoxPoodle said:

Republic Squadrons I (early war):

V-19 Torrent 

BTL-B Y-Wing

Delta-7 Aethersprite

Nu-Class attack shuttle (relay and strategic, having these keywords in the 1st squadron box will probably be necessary

Republic II (late war):

Z-95 Headhunter, obviously clone version

ARC-170 (rogue?)

Eta-2-Actis Jedi Interceptor, would love two ship stances for the Jedi fighters BTW.

V-Wing

Don't forget about the LAAT and the G9 Rigger-class light freighter.

1 hour ago, LennoxPoodle said:

Seppies I (early war?):

Vulture Droid Fighter (duh) Could a combo of swarm and bomber work here?

Hyena-Bomber

Sheathipede

Nantex? Alternatively Doku's ship to have a "hero" vessel? Ventress's Fighter could work for that too.

Clankers II:

Tri-Fighter (obviously counter)

Rogue-Class?

Boarding Vessel (Raid)

Belbulab

Further Separatists squads:

  • Solar sailer
  • Sheathipede-class Type B shuttle
  • Maxillipede shuttle
  • HMP droid gunship
  • Shekelesh-class freight gunship
  • Ginivex-class fanblade starfighter
  • Star Courier / Scimitar
  • Umbaran starfighter

So I think there are more than enough options to pick from.

 

13 hours ago, Grinoch said:

Wookieepedia has the Interdictor class star Destroyer at about the same length as the Venator and it's a medium.

You are right but I think the Interdictor was already a mistake. If you look at the factions today, with the Rebels having way more distinct large ships than the Empire and the MC75 being literally only 75 meters longer than the Interdictor. The Interdictor should have definitely been a large ship. My guess would be that the Interdictor would be a large base ship if it were to be released today, or maybe even if FFG ever made a 2.0.

The Venators size (while ambiguous) is exactly in between the Interdictors and the MC75s, so in theory it could go either way, but I would, with very high confidence, bet that the Venator will be a large base ship.

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1 hour ago, LordCola said:

Don't forget about the LAAT and the G9 Rigger-class light freighter.

For the rigger just look at my suggestions for rogues and villains;-) As for the LAAT: I kind of left that one out because I really don't like seeing them in space (personal bias I know). For me they always were (mainly) a repulsor craft and are thus slightly misplaced in a space game (didn't like the space LAATs in TCW, would have prefered Nus in the cases they were used kind of the same for HMPs). But also there's just 8 squadron types in 2 packs and I guess the ones I listed are more relevant (for this games context).

1 hour ago, LordCola said:

Further Separatists squads:

  • Solar sailer
  • Sheathipede-class Type B shuttle
  • Maxillipede shuttle
  • HMP droid gunship
  • Shekelesh-class freight gunship
  • Ginivex-class fanblade starfighter
  • Star Courier / Scimitar
  • Umbaran starfighter

So I think there are more than enough options to pick from.

Yeah, that's why I was talking about prominent vessels. 

  • Solar sailer - already mentioned as option for seppies I-4 (Dokus ship)
  • Sheathipede-class Type B shuttle - We really only need one type of shuttle for gameplay purposes
  • Maxillipede shuttle - see above
  • HMP droid gunship - Mainly a repulsor craft
  • Shekelesh-class freight gunship - never seen in Separatist use (Canon), thanks anyway haven't thought about that one
  • Ginivex-class fanblade starfighter - same as Sailer, called Ventress's ship
  • Star Courier / Scimitar - Mentioned as option for RaV under the name of Sith Infiltrator
  • Umbaran starfighter - Mentioned in thoughts about auxilliary packs. Would also be cool if 2 squadrons of them came with the umbaran support ship similar to the Gauntlets in the Chimera box.

Thanks for completing the list anyway. Didn't know all the names and was to lazy to look them up 😉

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2 hours ago, LennoxPoodle said:

As for the LAAT: I kind of left that one out because I really don't like seeing them in space (personal bias I know). For me they always were (mainly) a repulsor craft and are thus slightly misplaced in a space game (didn't like the space LAATs in TCW, would have prefered Nus in the cases they were used kind of the same for HMPs). But also there's just 8 squadron types in 2 packs and I guess the ones I listed are more relevant (for this games context).

 

And yet, it’s canon and way too iconic to think it won’t pop up.  Same goes for the droid gunship, which made as many in-show appearances in space as in atmosphere, and the Sheathipede-class.

Heck, we saw atmospheric battles and skirmishes between capital ships in that show on Teth, Cato Neimoidia, Anaxes.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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7 hours ago, Grathew said:

I think the question should be does the GAR need a large based ship? You could very easily give it large base tats on a medium base. You could have a 110 pt Venator with 10 hull 3/3/2 shields, command 3, squadrons 5, and engineering 4 while sitting on a medium base. 

That does mean no strategic advisor available, and that disposable capacitors is available for the Venator (assuming it has the slot).  Large base firing blues at long range could be overpowered.

Edited by flatpackhamster

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45 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:

That does mean no strategic advisor available, and that disposable capacitors is available for the Venator (assuming it has the slot).  Large base firing blues at long range could be overpowered.

 The Venator is supposed to have less fire power than a Victory iirc. So probably closer to the interdictor in firepower department. Making Dcap not overpowered. As for no Strategic Adviser personally I see that as a win because I hate his lazy but. 

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5 minutes ago, Grathew said:

 The Venator is supposed to have less fire power than a Victory iirc. So probably closer to the interdictor in firepower department. Making Dcap not overpowered. As for no Strategic Adviser personally I see that as a win because I hate his lazy but. 

I think the Venator actually has an opportunity to stand out from the crowd. Large squadron value, the rare "Imperial" ship that focuses its fire on its side arcs, rather than its front, less of an all-out bruiser... I would be disappointed if it simply slotted in somewhere between a Victory and Imperial-class. I'd like to see it differ more by type than degree.

Edited by Rmcarrier1

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4 minutes ago, Grathew said:

The Venator is supposed to have less fire power than a Victory iirc.

That is a no. The VSD does, for all intents and purposes, not exist in Cannon. It only gets namedropped in Tarkin. So there are no canon comparisons between the VSD and the … well other VSD (Venator).

10 minutes ago, Grathew said:

So probably closer to the interdictor in firepower department.

It better be a whole lot stronger than the Interdictor since the Venator was the strongest ship in the Republic Navy in terms of pure ship based anti capital ship firepower. So a faction whos strongest ship is only as strong as an Interdictor would be (in my opinion) beyond laughable. It should have at least one arc with at least 6 attack dice.

14 minutes ago, Grathew said:

As for no Strategic Adviser personally I see that as a win because I hate his lazy but.

I can totally see and understand people hating Strategic Adviser, but denying one faction access to him while still keeping him in the game for all other factions seems like a terrible idea to me.

 

11 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

I think the Venator actually has an opportunity to stand out from the crowd. Large squadron value, the rare "Imperial" ship that focuses its fire on its side arcs, rather than its front, less of an all-out bruiser.

So, an MC80H? Not that I would be against that, it's just that carrier with strong side arcs is not "standing out" in Armada. You might say: "but for the Empire it would be outstanding" and I would agree. It's just that I have my doubts we will get an Imperial Venator (even though I would want nothing more than that!). So another faction with a carrier with strong side arcs is not standing out. Again, I have nothing against that. I don't need new and outstanding things in Armada. Just new things that allow for new combinations is fine for me. It's just that neither a front arc focused nor a side arc focused Venator would be standing out in the current game of Armada, so I see neither of them as something to be disappointed about. (Should however the empire get a Venator I would be for it being a side arc focussed carrier as the empire already has plenty front arc focused ones.)

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1 hour ago, LordCola said:

That is a no. The VSD does, for all intents and purposes, not exist in Cannon. It only gets namedropped in Tarkin. So there are no canon comparisons between the VSD and the … well other VSD (Venator).

Pablo Hidalgo has stated that if something is name dropped, but no further details are stated, you can assume Legends details apply, until there is contradictory canon information to take preference.

 

this allows them to use things like Planet Names without having to endlessly rehash the details of each of them. 

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That being said:

The VSD-1 can be built to throw 11 dice before a confire.

The rarer VSD-2 sacrificed missile tubes for ion cannons, so it's not implausible the "outgunned" statement could apply to the more widespread VSD-1, and both could be outgunned in base armament by the Venator.

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I think I am reading people right in talking about ship attack power and comparing it to Galactic War stuff. That's why I want them to release upgrade packs, sell me the ships as CW era and make them the best options so lots of dice and hull/shields, then release a pack of cards to upgrade them (more like downgrade them) to Galactic War, or where they would be roughly. So a Venator would go from powerhouse to a middling outer rim patrol ship. Its not so much less armed or armored than it was so much as it now just doesn't pack the punch of modern ships. This also allows older ships in the Galactic War like the victory to get an upgrade card that really boosts them. Everyone wins with this as we get more options more often at low cost and FFG gets to act like they handed us a release with little effort by comparison to adding new ship sets

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16 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Pablo Hidalgo has stated that if something is name dropped, but no further details are stated, you can assume Legends details apply, until there is contradictory canon information to take preference.

 

this allows them to use things like Planet Names without having to endlessly rehash the details of each of them. 

Oh no. First of all, I did not know that. Second, that sounds like a terrible idea. This statement is so vague that it really does not clear up any ambiguity. Like what exactly does that even mean? Lets say they name dropp a planet. What are now all the details that carry over from legends. Does that mean that the planet is now also inhabited by the same species as in legends?* Does that now also mean that all the individuals from this species from legends are now canon?* Does that now mean that all adventure and Storys they participated in legends are now canon?* Does that now mean that all the other species they encountered in their stories are now canon?*...

This statement is a recursion without an anchor. You only need to apply this once to recanonize everything from legends.

 

*as long as this does not contradict anything specifically stated in current canon

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14 hours ago, gredert said:

I think I am reading people right in talking about ship attack power and comparing it to Galactic War stuff. That's why I want them to release upgrade packs, sell me the ships as CW era and make them the best options so lots of dice and hull/shields, then release a pack of cards to upgrade them (more like downgrade them) to Galactic War, or where they would be roughly. So a Venator would go from powerhouse to a middling outer rim patrol ship. Its not so much less armed or armored than it was so much as it now just doesn't pack the punch of modern ships.

There is no need for this. Between the CW and the GCW there is very little technological progress. In general the rate of technological development is very low in the Star Wars universe. Venators from the CW would still be strong ships during the GCW. The type and strength of guns and shield generators used during the CW and the GCW is pretty much identical, so there is no reason to release an adjusted version of these ships. 

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My wish for GAR is very expensive super ships. They were purpose built and crewed by lifetime trained, soldiers and crewman clones led by Jedi. After the Clone War the Empire went to cheap TIE fighters, why not cheaper capital ships as well? They had to build way more of them for the pacification of a galaxy so corners were cut? As we have said the tech in star wars doesn't change much, just tactics because of different leaders. Let the Republic line ships be awesome, but make us pay for them!

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2 hours ago, zingerwhip said:

Let the Republic line ships be awesome, but make us pay for them!

Isn't that the Empire? You pay out the butt for ISDs and Super Star Destroyers but they're the strongest in the game when upgraded well.

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