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POINTS ARE UP

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Anyone up for 4 Heroic/Hull Red Expert T-70s?  Should be rather a slog to grind them down.  8 HP behind 2 Heroic Greens is no joke.

Or do I just fly 5 T-65s?  Less tanky but oh so many attack dice. 

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1 minute ago, Hawkstrike said:

Or do I just fly 5 T-65s?  Less tanky but oh so many attack dice. 

I guess it depends on what you think you'll wind up facing.  Against the field, higher ship count might just win out.  However, that Init 3 bump seems like it could easily come in handy, if we start seeing a lot more generics.

Head to head, T-65 dies in about 4.3 attacks, but one of these T-70s dies in about 6.  A fairly average looking opening round could easily see the T-70s taking an X-Wing off the table, then not losing on to return fire.  Similar attacks the next round, and you'd be essentially 3 vs 3, and if that's the middle game, I'd give it to the T-70s, probably.

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Time for 5x Cavern Angels Zealots with inertial dampeners!

You thought XXXXX was bad, now try it with 0-stops!

Edit:

Also realized this monstrosity is now legal:

Monstrosity

Cavern Angels Zealot (39)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    

Cavern Angels Zealot (39)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    
        
Cavern Angels Zealot (39)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    

    
Blue Squadron Pilot (41)    
    
Blue Squadron Pilot (41)    

Total: 199    

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Time for 5x Cavern Angels Zealots with inertial dampeners!

You thought XXXXX was bad, now try it with 0-stops!

That... actually sounds like a lot of fun to me. I got addicted to 0-stops when they helped me win one of my first games. I might need to track that set down after all (the re-release got cancelled, right?).

Edited by Jokubas

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2 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Wow I don't like Hyperspace anymore.

I finally like it for the first time ever.

If the meta is the exact same as extended, what’s the point? That’s why I never played before.

Now it’s actually a fun new challenge to find the best lists for a totally different meta.

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4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I finally like it for the first time ever.

If the meta is the exact same as extended, what’s the point? That’s why I never played before.

Now it’s actually a fun new challenge to find the best lists for a totally different meta.

It's different but not for all factions. Scum, FO and probably Rebels have their best archetypes in both modes.

Imperial or Republic are very limited.

I don't see much balance here, and maybe some factions don't see much table. For a lot of people it's more easy to play a squad that works than find a new one.

I like the difference between formats but I'm worried about the difference between factions at Hyperspace.

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Overall picture things either stayed the same, or went down in points. With only select things going up in points. Mostly things that were still being used too much / effective like regen droids and vet turret gunners.

They all make sense... and then there are the cannons.  What am I missing here?  (Not a tournament player, so not always up with the world meta)  But why did they get point increases.  My general feeling for them was they were pretty meh already, where it really required a special condition for the cannon shot to be better than just using your normal primary.

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17 minutes ago, Bort said:

Overall picture things either stayed the same, or went down in points. With only select things going up in points. Mostly things that were still being used too much / effective like regen droids and vet turret gunners.

They all make sense... and then there are the cannons.  What am I missing here?  (Not a tournament player, so not always up with the world meta)  But why did they get point increases.  My general feeling for them was they were pretty meh already, where it really required a special condition for the cannon shot to be better than just using your normal primary.

Could be some collateral damage nerfing from New Cannon slot on jumpmaster5k.

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17 minutes ago, Bort said:

They all make sense... and then there are the cannons.  What am I missing here?  (Not a tournament player, so not always up with the world meta)  But why did they get point increases.  My general feeling for them was they were pretty meh already, where it really required a special condition for the cannon shot to be better than just using your normal primary.

The new B-Wing config.

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11 minutes ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:

Could be some collateral damage nerfing from New Cannon slot on jumpmaster5k.

but really, they needed something, so the added cannon slot with the points decrease on them is good as-is.

Why then penalise any other cannon in the game.

 

11 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:

The new B-Wing config.

oook... but then add the price to the config, not the cannon.

 

 

 

*Edit.  Both answers seems viable, thanks for the responses. Not attacking you, but if that is the reasoning I think its bad.  ;)

Edited by Bort

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14 minutes ago, Bort said:

but really, they needed something, so the added cannon slot with the points decrease on them is good as-is.

Why then penalise any other cannon in the game.

 

oook... but then add the price to the config, not the cannon.

They had limited options to improve the jumpmaster5k. Was suggested they might have added an upgrade/fix that gave it a white rotate turret action. This way they upped its usefulness without needing such a fix. I'm good with it as now autoblaster or even ion Cannon gives u a good reason to play it.

 

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36 minutes ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:

They had limited options to improve the jumpmaster5k. Was suggested they might have added an upgrade/fix that gave it a white rotate turret action. This way they upped its usefulness without needing such a fix. I'm good with it as now autoblaster or even ion Cannon gives u a good reason to play it.

 

Totally in agreement.  It was an elegant update to address the ships lack of performance.  But still doesn't feel like a good enough reason to up cannon costs.

Unless ofc the conclusion was:  "Nobody uses cannons anyways, so we only need to think of the J5k and B-wing effect on cannons."   Which I guess is kinda viable.


More comments in new thread: 

 

Edited by Bort

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15 minutes ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:

They had limited options to improve the jumpmaster5k. Was suggested they might have added an upgrade/fix that gave it a white rotate turret action. This way they upped its usefulness without needing such a fix. I'm good with it as now autoblaster or even ion Cannon gives u a good reason to play it.

 

Tractor Beam may become a useful on Dengar with him being I6 too. 

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1 hour ago, Bort said:

But why did they get point increases. 

According to Max, Cannons went up because Scyks and other cannon carriers (IGs, Krassis, etc.) were reduced on cost. He stated so during the stream.

Edited by Hiemfire

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The word Mynock is colored blue on the very last page of the new RR. So that means it has changed. Does anyone know what kind of infestation it was in the previous version?!? 🤨

Edit: also Han on page 39. 

Edited by Polynomial-C

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1 minute ago, Polynomial-C said:

The word mynock is colored blue on the very last page of the new RR. So that means it has changed. Does anyone know what kind of infestation it was in the previous version?!? 🤨

It marks it as a new addition. The pack it's in isn't even out yet. Comes in Never Tell Me The Odds.

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3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

According to Max, Cannons went up because Scyks and other cannon carriers (IGs, Krassis, etc.) were reduced on cost. He stated so during the stream.

Thanks for the reference.  Completely nonsensical from them, because by that argument all missiles, torpedoes and bombs, devices,  payloads etc. should have gone up too. But at least they "have" a reason.

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20 minutes ago, Bort said:

Thanks for the reference.  Completely nonsensical from them, because by that argument all missiles, torpedoes and bombs, devices,  payloads etc. should have gone up too. But at least they "have" a reason.

I think it makes perfect sense.

To me, the old points look like Cannons are deliberately under-priced (compare Ion Cannon and Ion Missiles) and Scyks were deliberately overpriced (compare Cartel Spacer and Epsilon TIE/fo).  With B-Wings getting their cannon-based S-Foils, seems like FFG decided to remove the "cannon slot tax" and put the cost onto the cannons.  I mean, it's pretty obvious that Turret Slots have a healthy tax with them, and turret upgrades are underpriced.  I think the same used to be true with cannons.  So IG-88s go down, Mist Hunter goes down, etc.  B-Wings didn't pay a slot tax before, so they didn't come down, but also largely because their S-Foils are part of the reason Cannon prices went up.

However, overall missiles and torpedoes weren't overpriced.  Their prices weren't deliberately low to justify a higher base cost on a Scyk, but were having their prices set based on being taken on fairly costed ships, like T-65 and various CIS Droids.

Granted, there was at least one big loser: the XG-1 Starwing.  They got a plain nerf that they didn't really need, no lies.

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23 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think it makes perfect sense.

To me, the old points look like Cannons are deliberately under-priced (compare Ion Cannon and Ion Missiles) and Scyks were deliberately overpriced (compare Cartel Spacer and Epsilon TIE/fo).  With B-Wings getting their cannon-based S-Foils, seems like FFG decided to remove the "cannon slot tax" and put the cost onto the cannons.  I mean, it's pretty obvious that Turret Slots have a healthy tax with them, and turret upgrades are underpriced.  I think the same used to be true with cannons.  So IG-88s go down, Mist Hunter goes down, etc.  B-Wings didn't pay a slot tax before, so they didn't come down, but also largely because their S-Foils are part of the reason Cannon prices went up.

However, overall missiles and torpedoes weren't overpriced.  Their prices weren't deliberately low to justify a higher base cost on a Scyk, but were having their prices set based on being taken on fairly costed ships, like T-65 and various CIS Droids.

Granted, there was at least one big loser: the XG-1 Starwing.  They got a plain nerf that they didn't really need, no lies.

Ok.   Guess I didn't take the bigger picture view like that.

 

But on the other hand, i'm a huge supporter of not paying for slots.   For example I think the new base Z-95 of Rebels and Scum that cost the same points is a huge step in the right direction.  They still need to pull the Y-wing and HWK into that direction too, because scum still pay for the unused illicit slot.

Ship cost (in my mind) should be determined by base stats (att, def, hull, shield), the dail and the pilot ability.  

Slots provide variability, differentiating somewhat what ships are likely to be able to do...    the upgrades themselves should be costed on the ability it provides (scaled appropriately according to base stats like they do already where needed)

 

 

Edited by Bort

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3 minutes ago, Bort said:

But on the other hand, i'm a huge supporter of not paying for slots.   For example I think the new base Z-95 of Rebels and Scum that cost the same points is a huge step in the right direction.  They still need to pull the Y-wing and HWK into that direction too, because scum still pay for the unused illicit slot.

I'd agree that getting rid of slot taxes is mostly good.  And Scum HWK did get a helpful change: it used to cost MORE than the Rebel generic.  Now THAT was an inappropriate slot tax. While it's lower Init at the same price, I can't really mind too much, since I don't think it ought to go down to cheaper than the Rebel HWK.  Well, Scum gets their Black Sun Soldier Z-95 with a bonus Init for free compared to the Rebel Tala.  I guess there will always be a few of those here and there.

 

But when FFG has been using slot taxes, sometimes when the slot tax is eliminated, the costs on that upgrade go up.  I think it's for the best, but sometimes can feel a bit awkward, and there can be clear losers in the process.

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9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'd agree that getting rid of slot taxes is mostly good.  And Scum HWK did get a helpful change: it used to cost MORE than the Rebel generic.  Now THAT was an inappropriate slot tax. While it's lower Init at the same price, I can't really mind too much, since I don't think it ought to go down to cheaper than the Rebel HWK.  Well, Scum gets their Black Sun Soldier Z-95 with a bonus Init for free compared to the Rebel Tala.  I guess there will always be a few of those here and there.

 

But when FFG has been using slot taxes, sometimes when the slot tax is eliminated, the costs on that upgrade go up.  I think it's for the best, but sometimes can feel a bit awkward, and there can be clear losers in the process.

Yup. I noted in another thread the different y-wing, hwk and z95 generics, and also noticed that for the Y-wing and HWK the scum ones are the same points as the Rebel ones, with lower initiative, while the z95 middle range generic they have the same points with the scum one being higher init, and the low end generics are the same cost and same init.

For me the only ones that are correctly aligned right now are the low end z95 generic.   

 

But all in all... I think you gave a good breakdown of their logic, so I subtract my statement that its nonsensical.  :) 

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25 minutes ago, Bort said:

Yup. I noted in another thread the different y-wing, hwk and z95 generics, and also noticed that for the Y-wing and HWK the scum ones are the same points as the Rebel ones, with lower initiative, while the z95 middle range generic they have the same points with the scum one being higher init, and the low end generics are the same cost and same init.

For me the only ones that are correctly aligned right now are the low end z95 generic.   

 

But all in all... I think you gave a good breakdown of their logic, so I subtract my statement that its nonsensical.  :) 

I mean, Cannons might still be overpriced.  That's entirely still possible. :) 

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