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R3dReVenge

Should activation # be limited?

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No. It cuts rebels and separatist's natural ability to outnumber their opponents who are clearly more durable. Horde vs hero game play. Vader has little downside if activations are capped at 10 because right now you can build a Vader list at 10 activations. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

No. It cuts rebels and separatist's natural ability to outnumber their opponents who are clearly more durable. Horde vs hero game play. Vader has little downside if activations are capped at 10 because right now you can build a Vader list at 10 activations. 

 

To what Separatist ability are you referring? They currently cap at 10 activations using absolute bare bones units and with what's been previewed that isn't changing that anytime soon.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

To what Separatist ability are you referring? They currently cap at 10 activations using absolute bare bones units and with what's been previewed that isn't changing that anytime soon.

In the future I expect them to be filled with cheaper officers and more horde units. they do have a good number of more "expensive" units we can expect as well, but I think that they will normally be about 10-11 in the future. It doesn't directly effect them as much as rebels, but I think if there was a hard cap on units, the whole meta would change, which would have massive implications for each faction. For instance, if you were building imperials knowing that there is a hard cap at 10 activations, you can start to bring bikes again because you don't have to worry as much on snipers because they would likely be taken less. If bikes are being taken more than anti bikes are taken more, which for rebels would be the new DLT-20a guns. So, you have to combat them at range 4 so you bring a whole shore gunline. to beat a shore gunline you need to tangle them, which brings us back to tauntauns in some deranged form of rock, paper, scissors. I think this is the worst thing that could possibly happen to this game right now other than no more units.

@Mokoshkana 69 posts Ayy lmao 👽

Edited by Cleto0

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43 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Should activation # be limited to a maximum of 10 activations per list?

 

Why or whynot?

I would say no. 

Activation mechanics are often exploitable, but that doesn't necessarily justify a hard cap. The rank system already acts as a cap to prevent abuse of cost efficient units  (Reb officer plus 15 strike force snipers for instance can't be done because of the caps on rank lol) and the point balancing is built around the limitations there. 

I don't pay attention to a lot of competitive level play, but I haven't seen activation spam get out of control there either. (The most recent competitive list I saw was I think 11 or 12 activations and while it did very well I think that can be attributed to the player's skill and the 3 tauntauns in the list. lol)

Armada had a real issue with activation spam after the flotillas were released. Even had a fellow win a high level event by using an 8-10 activation flotilla fleet an a ton of bombers (Armada's version of a 15-16 all sniper list lol). Eventually they added a hard cap because it became a serious issue in the game. That said the hard cap crippled a good chunk of one faction's fighter based fleets, as the most economic way to push squads was 3x (+) flotillas. 

I haven't seen anything like that yet in Legion. 

(Personally, I'd like to see more keywords to expand rank caps, specifically for droids. I love the idea of a 8-9 B1 horde army lol)

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It might help with seeing more vehicles enter play. Having a higher activation than your opponent gives you an advantage...period. This is why the 12 Activation Leia, Taun Taun, Naked Rebels list works so well (and dominates). 

If it meant the meta gets changed up, I would happily take a cap. They need to find a way to get more vehicles into competitive play anyway. 

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41 minutes ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

I've found that making the initiative bid based on activation number as opposed to points works pretty well.

Absolutely this. Determining blue player should go # of activations, then points, and then roll of the dice.

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Pros: Discourages spamming of any unit becuase each activation is an opportunity cost. Levels the playing field of activation # in competition. Encourages higher cost single units like heavy supports and force wielding commanders. Trims game length by a marginal amount.

Cons: Competitive play becomes 9 or 10 activations period, which hampers list building diversity. 

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Being blue player seems less of a bonus than activation account , for now, at least until the new battle cards hit from vital assets at which time I suspect blue player bids may increase (although hopefully not to the pre Key Positions nerf levels), so I actually like this idea.

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7 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Pros: Discourages spamming of any unit becuase each activation is an opportunity cost. Levels the playing field of activation # in competition. Encourages higher cost single units like heavy supports and force wielding commanders. Trims game length by a marginal amount.

Cons: Competitive play becomes 9 or 10 activations period, which hampers list building diversity. 

You could argue that lists aren't diverse since they are all trying to maximize the # of activations --> Tauntaun + sniper spam for Rebel lists and Shoretrooper/Mortar/Sniper spam for empire lists. 

The reason why I brought this topic up was because I viewed the recent lists at the invader tournament and they featured 10-12 activation per list. Sniper abuse is just as prevalent as it used to be. 

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A few things could happen to benefit lower activation counts.

1) As mentioned above, determine blue player by # of activations (probably best)

2) Implement "battlefield control" cards, kinda like claiming the battlefield in Star Wars: Destiny. 3pts or so, an upgrade given to a commander that would state something like: "if you were to activate and have no units, and your opponent would activate again, at the beginning of the next round, give a unit a surge/aim/dodge or whatever"

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No limit but I think a few rule changes are needed to help strengthen lower activation lists. Allow vehicles to score some objectives and let Standby tokens stick even if you get shot would help lower activation lists I think. 

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24 minutes ago, draco193 said:

No limit but I think a few rule changes are needed to help strengthen lower activation lists. Allow vehicles to score some objectives and let Standby tokens stick even if you get shot would help lower activation lists I think. 

I don't think vehicles should be able to score objectives, but they should prevent the scoring of objectives.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:

I don't think vehicles should be able to score objectives, but they should prevent the scoring of objectives.

 

45 minutes ago, draco193 said:

No limit but I think a few rule changes are needed to help strengthen lower activation lists. Allow vehicles to score some objectives and let Standby tokens stick even if you get shot would help lower activation lists I think. 

I kinda think some vehicles should have the graffiti token effect. lol The AT-ST/ T47 maybe the Gav tank, the saber and AAT.

Probably not a great idea, but it seems thematic at least lol 

Edited by Darth Sanguis

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1 hour ago, Darth Sanguis said:

 

I kinda think some vehicles should have the graffiti token effect. lol The AT-ST/ T47 maybe the Gav tank, the saber and AAT.

Probably not a great idea, but it seems thematic at least lol 

I like it. Right now vehicles seem to be missing that oomph you should have from a 150+ point unit. 

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28 minutes ago, draco193 said:

I like it. Right now vehicles seem to be missing that oomph you should have from a 150+ point unit. 

Vehicle weapons should all have repressive in my opinion to make it more thematic and make the vehicles more powerful. They should also all have inspire or something similar. Maybe even have a trait like compel

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15 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

I've found that making the initiative bid based on activation number as opposed to points works pretty well.

I once suggested this for Armada, a game where initiative is way more important than it is in Legion, and people acted like I was crazy. 

I love the idea. I have always hated point-based bids. 

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On 1/2/2020 at 5:29 PM, Cleto0 said:

In the future I expect them to be filled with cheaper officers and more horde units.

What in this game could be cheaper than B1s? Ewoks? Jawas?

There's no reason to limit activations. But I REALLY like bid by activations instead of points.

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