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Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun

RoS Xyston-Class Star Destroyer

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8 hours ago, Forresto said:

the Empire leaving a Milenium Falcon sized hole straight to the main reactor. 


There was not a single Falcon-sized tunnel to the Main Reactor.  The vast majority of the Death Star was unfinished superstructure, meaning much of it was mostly empty space between scaffolding and lattice.  There were many routes to the Core, all of which just required flying through the scaffolding, not one single "weakness tunnel."   Which is why Wedge is "path-finding" for the attack run, rather than just following a one-lane road ("Lock onto the largest power source... that should be the main reactor...").  It's also why half of the attack group could just break off and fly back toward the surface ("... and see if you can get some of those fighters to follow you.").   Basically, it would be like trying to fly an RC Plane through the skeleton of a skyscraper that's being built, before they install all the walls and windows and floors and ceilings.  You'll see a lot of bundles of wires and pipes and girders (same stuff we see inside the DSII), but there's a lot of empty space to find a route through all the junk.  But it is very much NOT akin to, for instance, flying an RC plane through the airduct highway of a finished skyscraper.

Fun fact: there were also originally scripted to be scenes where Jerjerrod is ordering his crew to shut down sections of the Death Star and to power up other areas and flood sections with radiation and stuff... he was effectively trying to mess up the sensors of the Rebel craft and get them to wander through the superstructure chasing phantom signals rather than the actual core.

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I'm very meh about this ship. Isd 1 with a death star Lazer  on the bottom....meh. I really not a big isd 1 fan, slapping a bigger gun on it dose not endear it to me. Honestly I would have been pleased as punch if they were onagers, I like how it looks.

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Posted (edited)

@AllWingsStandyingBy and how many people had these fantastic explanations when walking out of the theaters in ‘83? I’m going by what we have onscreen. 

An A-Wing bringing down the Executor, the Falcon sized hole to the main reactor, the Emperor’s legion of his finest troops that onscreen is at most a company and is soundly beaten by teddy bears.  

One of the most famous problems in Empire Strikes Back is how the Falcon travels to another star system on sublight engines in reasonable time. 

It’s remarkable how much isn’t explained in the original trilogy but just is. As fans we try to make it work with the most logical answer we can if only to save it from breaking the universe. If anything that is a main reason why the expanded universe is so popular, installing order on a chaotic and sometimes inconsistent story.

My point is the original films have had 37 to 41 years of guides and books and fan speculation to smooth out the wrinkles. We as fans are at our best when we’re problem solvers. The Rise of Skywalker just came out and although there might be wrinkles that just can’t be smoothed out entirely too many are surrendering before even trying to see if it can be done.

(Btw thanks for the excellent write up. I knew about the Executor explanation, not the Death Star one. Still a tad silly given all it would have taken is to obstruct any ship sized entrance in proximity to the reactor core but I digress.)

 

Edited by Forresto

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4 hours ago, Forresto said:

The Force Awakens   The Last Jedi   The Rise of Skywalker just came out and although there might be wrinkles that just can’t be smoothed out entirely too many are surrendering before even trying to see if it can be done.

Welcome to the sequel trilogy. lol 

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Unpopular opinion: I actually like this ship.

The red trim looks cool and the Cannon, while op as heck, is just completely wrong in all the right ways. It's stupid and I love it for it. Although, this is coming from the same guy who likes the Arquitens mainly for it being blown up so much in Rebels.

Mostly, I think it's because there's still one out there and I would love to have an Armada/X-Wing/Legion campaign of it and the remaining First Order having to fend off all the thousands of ships and fighters hunting them down.

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I love the ship, i even like the cannon.

 

What i dont like? The power of the cannon. It should have been a ship killer/ sustained bombardment cannon. 

 

Anyone seen that youtube vid of the battle of the dreadnaughts? The eclipse destroying the mon cal ship? Thats what i would have enjoyed

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Stupid Supergun aside I just wish they did more alterations to it instead of simply scaling up an ISD-I. It's such a lazy solution... the only thing worse is the Tector-class being identical to ISDs except the hangar.

With the ISD being a symbol of power and terror it’s not unsurprising Palpatine would demand they would build them that way.

Edited by Forresto

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3 hours ago, Norell said:

@AllWingsStandyingBy I love you man! You spared me a lot of time by not having to write all that down. Perfectly summarized!

EDIT: By the way I hope you know that you're dealing with the de facto official ambassador of Disney to our community in @Forresto :D

Oh come on you can do better than that.

If you’re going to say I’m a schill you might as well not beat around the bush.

Real glad you're shifting the discourse in that direction and piggybacking off @AllWingsStandyingBy time and effort. 

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9 hours ago, Forresto said:

With the ISD being a symbol of power and terror it’s not unsurprising Palpatine would demand they would build them that way.

I'd think he wouldn't care as long as it got the job done. The Executor class wasn't just an upscaled ISD, after all.

Again, lazy. Take this asset, make it more intimidating by just making it bigger and adding a gun to it. Even VSDs had wings and a different bridge arrangement to make it out as a different class- is it so much to ask for other modifications?

Guh.
 

My wonder is only for the future of Armada. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine the First Order... but would they go as far as to create a "Final Order" faction, or would they just merge it in with the First Order? Which ever they choose, are they going to model the Xyston or make it a title for the ISD?

 

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31 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

My wonder is only for the future of Armada. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine the First Order... but would they go as far as to create a "Final Order" faction, or would they just merge it in with the First Order? Which ever they choose, are they going to model the Xyston or make it a title for the ISD?

I honestly don't think it will happen. Which is sad because I want a resurgent class model so bad. lol

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Norsehound said:

My wonder is only for the future of Armada. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine the First Order... but would they go as far as to create a "Final Order" faction, or would they just merge it in with the First Order? Which ever they choose, are they going to model the Xyston or make it a title for the ISD?

 

I suspect what they could do is release the Resurgent Class and the Raddus (whatever class that is) as the only proper expansions for sequel era factions. Then release a card expansion with titles and stats that allow us to add the galactic civil war era expansions to either the First Order or the Resistance. Boom sequel trilogy represented in the least expensive, least risky manner for FFG, and also encourages people to buy more of the expansions already released.

Edited by Forresto

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Again, lazy. Take this asset, make it more intimidating by just making it bigger and adding a gun to it. Even VSDs had wings and a different bridge arrangement to make it out as a different class- is it so much to ask for other modifications?

Most Legends EU Star Destroyers:

concerned puppet meme.jpg

Edited by Derpzilla88

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On 1/2/2020 at 6:23 AM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

In actuality, Madine's taskforce of around 8-12 mon calamari warships attack the Executor (seen around the ship during shots from the Battle of Endor, effectively screening off the SSD from the rest of the Imperial fleet).

Iirc this theory is based on unused footage, but you have to be a bit careful with that; when filming RotJ they weren't sure if the Ackbar puppet/costume would work, so they filmed a lot of his scenes with General Madine (Dermot Crowley with a fake beard) just in case the Ackbar footage didn't work.

So there is a chance that that footage of Madine attacking the Super Star Destroyer is meant to be Ackbar attacking it; following on from the "Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer" line.

The underlying effect is still the same; the SSD's shields went down after sustained pummelling by the Alliance fleet, but it might not be a separate task force under Madine.

But yes - like most of the OT (but not the PT), RotJ has a lot of expository stuff cut out to make the film flow better (and greatly benefits from that); rather than get a few minutes and lots of shots showing Ackbar and the Alliance fleet attacking the Executor, we just get the concentrate fire line and the final destruction, with the film leaving it to our imagination to fill in the blanks.

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On 1/3/2020 at 2:16 AM, Norsehound said:

Stupid Supergun aside I just wish they did more alterations to it instead of simply scaling up an ISD-I. It's such a lazy solution... the only thing worse is the Tector-class being identical to ISDs except the hangar.

I never bought the story of the Tector class. The only scene with it pretty much seems to be a normal SD.

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2 hours ago, lordreaven448 said:

I never bought the story of the Tector class. The only scene with it pretty much seems to be a normal SD.

Was it actually a production model made for the film? I don’t recall ever seeing a picture anywhere.

And besides, a low squad value ISD has been done now anyways so it’s sort of redundant.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/3/2020 at 3:36 PM, Darth Sanguis said:

I honestly don't think it will happen. Which is sad because I want a resurgent class model so bad. lol

If Clone Wars does well, we will probably see sequel stuff eventually.  It will be  a few years though.  We have 4 proper capital ships for the resistance/new republic.  We have 3 proper capital ships for the firstorder/final order.  Not a lot to work with.  Other ships from previous releases will be useable.  Probably gonna have conversion kits.  But I think other sources (disney+, books, comics) will provide more ships before FFG starts thinking about sequel faction releases.

Also we don't have much info on some of the new ships seen in the huge fleet at the end of the battle of exagol.  I'm sure some of those will be explained to be new republic navy ships.  I mean I'm sure there were some vessels not at hosnian prime when it exploded.

Edited by Rune Taq

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37 minutes ago, Rune Taq said:

If Clone Wars does well, we will probably see sequel stuff eventually.  It will be  a few years though.  We have 4 proper capital ships for the resistance/new republic.  We have 3 proper capital ships for the firstorder/final order.  Not a lot to work with.  Other ships from previous releases will be useable.  Probably gonna have conversion kits.  But I think other sources (disney+, books, comics) will provide more ships before FFG starts thinking about sequel faction releases.

Also we don't have much info on some of the new ships seen in the huge fleet at the end of the battle of exagol.  I'm sure some of those will be explained to be new republic navy ships.  I mean I'm sure there were some vessels not at hosnian prime when it exploded.

You could be right, by the time clone wars is flushed out there may be enough expanded material to flush out First order and resistance factions. Or we may see some form of subfaction. I hope we get these ships, but I'm just unsure with all the backlash the sequels have received. 

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7 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

You could be right, by the time clone wars is flushed out there may be enough expanded material to flush out First order and resistance factions. Or we may see some form of subfaction. I hope we get these ships, but I'm just unsure with all the backlash the sequels have received. 

FFG will do it if they determine that can make a profit.  Xwing already has first order and resistance stuff.  I don't thing the fan reception to the sequel trilogy will make a difference or the xwing product for that era wouldn't be doing well either.  IMO.  

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15 hours ago, Rune Taq said:

FFG will do it if they determine that can make a profit.  Xwing already has first order and resistance stuff.  I don't thing the fan reception to the sequel trilogy will make a difference or the xwing product for that era wouldn't be doing well either.  IMO.  

X-wing has access to more playable content though. (also, just read one of the new comics and saw a FO tie bomber.... soon to be in the mix?)

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On 1/8/2020 at 4:51 PM, Rune Taq said:

FFG will do it if they determine that can make a profit.


Not necessarily. Business isn't just about "will this make a profit?" but rather "will this maximize my profits?"   Put differently, will FFG believe that pouring their finite employee energy, raw materials, production space, and shipping allotments into adding First Order and Resistance factions to their Armada offerings will net the most possible return of those investments, or could the profit from those resources be maximized by devoting them to other endeavors?

FFG was once the passionate vision of Christian Peterson, who loved gaming and was an avid gamer himself, and it seemed like quite a few products got made because he firmly believed they were great games, not because they'd make the most possible money.   That was a long time ago, before the Asmodee, before the Dark Times...

Over the past few years, in my opinion, we've been increasingly seeing an FFG that is run for the bottom line by Asmodee, and not as a labor of love by someone passionate about the industry.  Now we've got a company who's commitment to Organized Play pales in comparison to five years ago, who has shown a fair amount of disregard for Friendly Local Gamestores (e.g. aligning with Alliance, pre-orders getting bonuses through FFG's webstore, large 'minimum purchase order' requirements for retailers, distributors that allot product to bulk-ordering online sellers before FLGSes that just want  a few copies, etc.), and we seem to be approaching a big culling of their game line, including soon moving beloved and likely profitable product lines into an undefined and mysterious "hiatus" in 2020 presumably to free up resources for other, more profitable lines.  And they eliminated some gameplay-focused LCGs to reintroduce the cash-grab of collecting-focused random blind CCGs (e.g. Destiny and Keyforge).

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I guess Pablo Hidalgo is to blame for this specific mess. It was the visual guide where defined the specs and history of it were defined, not in the film itself. Whoever decided to do it (J.J. Abrahams?) probably just settled for a big Cannon stuck onto an ISD, without putting any thought towards its specific history (it does have a relative size to the other assets in the same CG environment though, right?). For the visual dictionary the author could just have called them ISD-I's hidden away over time during the empires reign and later modified in the Exegol shipyards. We never really see anything close enough to them to make size comparisons.

Apart from that, the book is incomplete anyway. It totally lacks information about anything within the Sith monolith (Cultists, Sovereign Protector, lab equipment, Sith throne, Palp, ...)

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If they were ISD1s that were squirreled away during the fall of the empire post-Jakku or post-Endor, I could actually buy that. 
 

This new class is a bad joke. 
 

 

Either way, the mouse would never approve, but they could un-JJ (de-JJ) the sizes. Cut all lengths by half and adjust firepower accordingly. 
 

A 1.6km supercarrier for imperials in the Resurgence. A 3.8km Mandator dreadnought. Rebels would get new 1.9km MC85. It would make the Nebulon C a higher cost variant of the Nebulon instead of something twice the size

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