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Gottmituns205

Okay, sell me on Legion

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I ditched Armada and it's overly complex series of "this beats this, that beats this, this game takes 3 hours to do."

I've heard Legion can run fast, and it looks rather fun...plus you have to paint your minis. 

So as an Empire guy (and 501st legion member)....what's the skinny on this game? I see we have snowies, and shories, where are my beloved Muddies? 

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Not familiar with Armada, so I don't quite know what you mean by "this beats this, that beats this," but Legion can also take 3 hours to play lol 

Skirmish format is a much quicker game, at a smaller scale than the standard 800 points.

Empire is still the strongest faction, imo, so you should be OK if you want to play them lol

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57 minutes ago, Gottmituns205 said:

I ditched Armada and it's overly complex series of "this beats this, that beats this, this game takes 3 hours to do."

I've heard Legion can run fast, and it looks rather fun...plus you have to paint your minis. 

So as an Empire guy (and 501st legion member)....what's the skinny on this game? I see we have snowies, and shories, where are my beloved Muddies? 

In normal gameplay, Armada is faster that Legion. I don't know about the "this beats this" and so, I found Armada pretty wide competitively, specially with the last waves and the nerf of Yavaris and Rieekan. Which I don't see in Legion as looking at the top lists from tournaments, as they are pretty much all the same basis.

Don't get me wrong, Legion is an excellent game, but so is Armada and those reasons you got for ditching Armada are more marked in Legion in my opinion.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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I feel your pain with Armada. The plethora of upgrade cards is way too much sometimes. So my game group has found a simple solution: just don't use the darn things. We've started playing games with few or no upgrades at all and they really are a lot of fun.

 

As for Legion, I'm still painting minis and haven't actually played it yet. Just looking it over it seems like upgrades are much fewer (so far) and mostly of the the: add a heavy weapon to this squad sort. And there's always the option of not using them if they become a bother. Once I've played a few times I'll have a stronger opinion.

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15 minutes ago, ScottWasburn said:

I feel your pain with Armada. The plethora of upgrade cards is way too much sometimes. So my game group has found a simple solution: just don't use the darn things. We've started playing games with few or no upgrades at all and they really are a lot of fun.

 

As for Legion, I'm still painting minis and haven't actually played it yet. Just looking it over it seems like upgrades are much fewer (so far) and mostly of the the: add a heavy weapon to this squad sort. And there's always the option of not using them if they become a bother. Once I've played a few times I'll have a stronger opinion.

Most upgrades are just added troopers or weapons. Many of the non-personnel upgrades are not game-changing, and many are just unplayable, like every single Grenade, other than maybe Frag grenades.

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1 hour ago, Gottmituns205 said:

I ditched Armada and it's overly complex series of "this beats this, that beats this, this game takes 3 hours to do."

I've heard Legion can run fast, and it looks rather fun...plus you have to paint your minis. 

So as an Empire guy (and 501st legion member)....what's the skinny on this game? I see we have snowies, and shories, where are my beloved Muddies? 

Tall order to sell you on a game in just one post, but I'll share what I love about the game.

First off, the hobby/modeling aspect. I love all of that. It's tedious and I spend way too much time doing it, but it's relaxing and feels quite rewarding.

In terms of gameplay it's fast-paced. Nothing feels "invincible", and there are plenty of ways to win battles (in 800pt version) without simply slaughtering your opponent. There's something kind of special about losing almost your entire force as the rebellion but still winning based off of objective points. If you get creative with your playing-field games never get stagnant. The dice system is simple without feeling too shallow. The order system (like command dials in armada, but better) is a nice way to mix things up as well. Upgrades generally feel like they make an impact, but some may not be worth the points. Sometimes I find myself just playing with the army builder for an hour or so.

To build on that, I love the releases so far, but some who didn't like Rogue One as much as I may not agree. However, you can't argue against the fact that almost all iconic combat units are in the game. There's plenty of room to make a thematic list without sacrificing much playability, especially with the corps upgrade packs coming out soon. Generic commanders are weak but I like that they're an option. Clone Wars release has been a train wreck so far, but I'm looking forward to what those factions bring to the table in the coming 4-6 months.

It's not a perfect game and we all have a little perfectionist in us, but for me, it's about all I could ask for in a Star Wars Miniatures themed game at this scale. Welcome aboard!

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You won't have an issue with legion.  The 500 point format is very quick.  You can have a full 500 point team with just the corps set and some snowies/shores.  If you like to paint then this is an awesome option. 

There are a lot of different options.  The 800 point format should never take longer than 2 hours.  If it does then you or your opponent is playing way too slow.  I played at a Rally Point Qualifying event (worlds tournament qualifier) and played top table where my opponent took 30 minutes per round.  The game was over after 3 hours and 17 minutes.  Apparently the top table match is allotted 3 hours 30 minutes.  All of my previous matches at that tournament before that match were over in under an hour and 30 minutes.  There are going to be crazy slow players in whatever game you play, but as some have already stated, the 800 point format usually averages 1.5-2 hours.

Im guessing mud troopers will eventually be released.  

If you are worried about it, call up a few FLGS to see if they have an open play for legion and just show up and see if you can grab a game with a friendly player.  See how you feel after the game and then decide whether to buy in or not.  Just so you know, everyone that I have introduced to this game loved it.  You can cap the game at different army points to make your games longer/slower as you please.

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2 hours ago, Gottmituns205 said:

So as an Empire guy (and 501st legion member)....what's the skinny on this game? I see we have snowies, and shories, where are my beloved Muddies? 

One of our locals painted Snowtroopers gray and brown.  Turns out they have have the same shape helmet as Mudtroopers.  It worked so well I thought for a minute that they were actual Mudtrooper models.  I’d recommend going that route if you want to see Mudtroopers.

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Former Armada player here. I got sick of waiting for new product. And what little player base within two hours of me basically dried up.

Legion has introduced me to the hobby aspect more than Armada's squadrons ever did. I enjoy the hobby and the players, while still thin in ranks, are some of the nicest people I've met.

The games still take 2+ hours. So you're not going to save time. But there's so much variety in list building and terrain alone that keeps the game fresh. Yes, there are better units than others, and maybe some stronger list consistency, but a skilled player can typically win most matches if they know how their lists work.

But not me. I'm pretty bad at the game. 😂

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I love Armada, but I find Legion more nuanced. There are more moving parts and levels of the game, from your Command Hand to the importance of a Unit Commander over any other mini in the unit. The top tables do take a lot longer to play, but like others said, a fast game can be done and you could try the 500 point Skirmish game. It plays a little differently than the 800 points, but still a lot of fun.

Take a look at the rules to get an idea. Learn to Play, Skirmish, and the almighty Rules Reference Guide.

As far as the hobby aspect goes, their’s also terrain to build, which I’ve been having more fun with than I thought I would. If you like 3D printed stuff, it means a lot more painting (of a different style), and if you really want to go into the deep end, you could try creating terrain. There are a LOT of YouTube channels that have tutorials including the Terrain Tutor, Black Magic Craft, and Wyloch’s Armoury to mention a few.

But if you get into Legion, you’ll be hopelessly hooked. You’ve been warned.😆🤪

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All the problems you had with Armada you will have with Legion in spades. Armada is a good deal faster than Legion. Positioning a ship is quicker and easier than positioning a squad. The complexity of Legion will rise considerably, as more and more units and upgrade cards are released. It was the same with X-Wing and Armada, and Legion is at the beginning of that trajectory. X-Wing collapsed under its upgrades and had to be rebooted. FFG might get there with Legion. All these games are fine, but they are neither quick nor wysiwyg and even flying casual will never make them casual games. You have to run around the table to study upgrade cards or accept it as fog of war.

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Muds are TBA. I’m sure they’ll eventually come along.

I never played Armada, but if the issue is time it’s not a big saver here unless you print off the Skirmish rules and play at lower points on 3x3. Which is now an FFG officially supported game variant, so there is that.

For me, I have to say the generic pros versus cons of Legion are:

+ Hobbying: I love the painting aspect and bringing my toys to life in my own chosen image (learned painting from legion and wanting to try the game, got hooked into a new hobby)

+ Terrain: having a 3d board state is awesome, and being able to build/buy more terrain and swapping it around means more game diversity. (Also, new hobby alert)

+ Still Iconic Star Wars: I’ve never had someone mistake a game of Legion for some other minis game. And man, the nostalgia factor for me of pushing around iconic forces in a ground battle is still quite strong - like going back to child hood but with rules to dictate how they shoot at each other :) 

+ You don’t need “all the things” to be competitive: you can buy “all of your faction” and have every legal option to you. Don’t need to buy across the aisle. Additionally, you don’t even NEED to buy everything in your own faction, because for the most part it’s more about options for building an army and not a “clutch must haz” upgrade only in one pack. And if you find you really want more upgrades, there’s a card pack. I haven’t bought any new empire since last January (Bossk excepted) and I don’t feel entirely outclassed on the table....but maybe I’m also just playing friends not ultra-competitive tournaments.

- Long: 2.5 hours easy. Maybe 3. Or, you accept this will be a while and add stuff to it and make it a party with friends and don’t worry about time. 

- Card driven upgrades: while they’re not unobtainable like in xwing 1.0, you do need cards for your minis abilities. The only real thing you can pick up on is heavy weapons among the troopers because they’re different sculpts. There isn’t a good way to just know what’s where without experience or asking about the list.

If I were you, I’d pick a faction and stick with it unless you need to provide multiples. Then go ahead and buy some for a second army. Buy only models that appeal to you, don’t worry about what’s competitive hotness because that will change almost every release schedule.

Me? I’m a bad bad example - started all empire, added Rebels to my line up so I could grab players to try this game without a financial investment, and then one of my buddies really wanted droids so I caved and went in with him on double clone core. Don’t be necessary don’t buy 3 factions ;) Stick with 1-2.

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I'll tell you the one thing that someone used to persuade me to buy in:

Even if you try it and hate it as a game, you still have the models, you don't pay any more to get the rules than you do to buy the models anyway(putting aside hypotheticals about the cardboard and doodads driving the box prices up, since I doubt they'd be any cheaper regardless), and there are loads of rulesets out there to play Star Wars with.

Star Wars Miniature Battles(WEG D6 based) can be found free online easily. Loads of "generic" sci-fi rulesets are clearly just versions of Star Wars with the serial numbers and trademarks filed off. Heck, there's even fan conversions of other systems like Bolt Action and Rangers of Shadow Deep.

So, worst case scenario is you end up like me - don't care for the gameplay of the system, but with loads of good quality SW figures to play other stuff with.

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16 hours ago, Yodhrin said:

Star Wars Miniature Battles(WEG D6 based) can be found free online easily.

If you're poor, two or three core sets and a box of specialists for each side would let you run your own WEG D6 minis campaigns more or less forever without running out of options.

Edited by TauntaunScout

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I just had a Skirmish game where Grievous almost wiped out two squads of troopers, but then Vader entered the game with killer dice, got Grievous down to two lives. Next round Grieves played a card which allowed him to flee, he shot at Vader, Vader deflected two shots back at Grievous and killed him... Those kinds of moments are FUN!!! 

Edited by Dwing

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2 hours ago, Dwing said:

I just had a Skirmish game where Grievous almost wiped out two squads of troopers, but then Vader entered the game with killer dice, got Grievous down to to lives. Next round Grieves played a card which allowed him to flere, he shot at Vader, Vader deflected two shots back at Grievous and killed him... Those kinds of moments are FUN!!! 

Why did he shot Vader when the latter had a Dodge token?!?!

I bet only one thought crossed the Empire player's mind:

Resultado de imagem para all too easy

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4 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

Why did he shot Vader when the latter had a Dodge token?!?!

I bet only one thought crossed the Empire player's mind:

 

  Hide contents

 

Resultado de imagem para all too easy

 

Well we vere playing for fun and I don't think he was betting on me rolling two surges... I still lost the game ;)

Edited by Dwing

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