Ideas for other elemental magic specialties beyond fire, ice, air, earth

[yeti1069 345]

I'm looking for some ideas on additions to the Elementalist talent that utilize other elements beyond the classic four.

Specifically, I'd like to brainstorm some ideas for positive and negative energy, light and darkness.

 

Thoughts?

What I was referring to were the new line of Elementalist talents out of the EPG:

The first adds the Fire (fire), Ice (water), Impact (earth), or Lightning (air) effects to any Attack spell you cast without increasing the difficulty, but bars you from using any of the other 3.

The Improved version grants: immunity to being knocked down or staggered (earth), can breath underwater and cannot be immobilized (water), can hover and cannot be disoriented (air), or immunity to fire/Burn (fire).

The Supreme version grants the benefit you gained from the Improved version to anyone affected by an Augment, Barrier, or Transform spell you cast on them.

 

What I'm looking for are ideas on how to include similar effects for positive and negative energy (life and unlife, or life and void, or growth and decay), and/or light and dark.

Edited December 26, 2019 by yeti1069
Updating OP

[AlanTheBothersome 10]

Here's some B.S. I came up with in high school for a Sci-Fi campaign, never really did get it to make sense, and I'm probably forgetting quite a bit, but here you go.

The basic idea was that you could pick 1 or 2 Elements to manipulate, with the Sub-Elements providing a basic idea of what the boundaries were with each one. 

 

The Basic Five Elements:

Mind, Matter, Spirit, Energy, Space.

 

Mind Sub-Elements:

Thought, Instinct, Emotion, Perception.

 

Matter Sub-Elements:

Earth, Water, Wind, Metal, Gravity, Magnetism.

 

Spirit Sub-Elements:

Life (Energy), Ectoplasm, Aetheria, Resonance.

 

Energy Sub-Elements:

Heat, Electricity, ElectroMagnetic, Radiation (Light), Force.

 

Space Sub-Elements:

Volume (The Basic 3 Dimensions), Dimensions (Additional), Time, Dark Matter, Antimatter, Darkness.

 

That's what I can remember, I'm not familiar with the talent, so I can't really input there....

[yeti1069 345]

What I was referring to were the new line of Elementalist talents out of the EPG:

The first adds the Fire (fire), Ice (water), Impact (earth), or Lightning (air) effects to any Attack spell you cast without increasing the difficulty, but bars you from using any of the other 3.

The Improved version grants: immunity to being knocked down or staggered (earth), can breath underwater and cannot be immobilized (water), can hover and cannot be disoriented (air), or immunity to fire/Burn (fire).

The Supreme version grants the benefit you gained from the Improved version to anyone affected by an Augment, Barrier, or Transform spell you cast on them.

 

What I'm looking for are ideas on how to include similar effects for positive and negative energy (life and unlife, or life and void, or growth and decay), and/or light and dark.

[c__beck 1,087]

The Elementalist talent give us the four classic Western elements. But Eastern philosophy has their own setup of elements.

For example, Japan has earth, water, fire, wind and void whereas Chinese wuxing philosophy has wood, fire, earth, metal, water. Heck, many JRPGs have light/dark as a separate dichotomy of elements that doesn't interact with earth/water/fire/wind.

Light/positive energy:

• Elementalist: Add the non-lethal effect
• Elementalist (Improved): They can see in the dark and can never be blinded: remove 3 setback dice from any dice pool due to darkness

Dark/negative energy:

• Elementalist: Add the deadly effect
• Elementalist (Improved): They are surrounded by a cloak of shadows, gaining them +1 Dice add of concealment at all times (CRB110). A character can spend 2 advantages from a check to ignore this concealment until the end of the encounter/scene

Just off the top of my head, will need playtesting and a second look.

[yeti1069 345]

Thanks! That’s along the lines of what I’m looking for.

[Terefang 165]

RMEC lists the following traditional elements:

air, earth, fire, water

ice, light, wind, dark, heat

gravity, inerta, vibration, electrical

Edited December 27, 2019 by Terefang

[c__beck 1,087]

10 hours ago, Terefang said:

RMEC lists the following traditional elements

What is 'RMEC'?

[Terefang 165]

16 minutes ago, c__beck said:

What is 'RMEC'?

rolemaster elemental companion (1st edition)

Edited December 27, 2019 by Terefang

[Terefang 165]

the "fire and ice" edition gives the following list of elements

the six standard elements found (corrupted) on the standard plane: air water earth ice fire light

the two arcane elements: 

• Aether - element of creation, life, and vitality
• Nether - element of destruction, death, entropy

 

one can argue if this is dissimilar to gygaxian planar scheme from DnD 1st and 2nd edition

Edited December 27, 2019 by Terefang

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

I’ll have more ideas on this but need time to think, and some elements could lean more towards other spells too. But some interesting options to work on though could be;

Sun, Moon, Stars (Mask spell)

Metal/Wood (Conjure)

Growth, Decay or Preservation/Decay (Barrier and Curse)

Storm

[Terefang 165]

me thinks that enumerating elemental types isnt sufficiant, unless you discard elemental cosmology entirely or just pick the elemental chaos theory.

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Terefang

[Terefang 165]

5 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Sun, Moon, Stars (Mask spell)

hmm ... never seen elemental of this types before -- maybe they are domains of influence rather than boiled-down elemental stuff.

for sun elementals would be: fire light heat

Edited December 30, 2019 by Terefang

[c__beck 1,087]

2 hours ago, Terefang said:

hmm ... never seen elemental of this types before -- maybe they are domains of influence rather than boiled-down elemental stuff.

There are a whole host of elemental powers that have appeared in various forms of media.

[WolfRider 269]

8 hours ago, c__beck said:

There are a whole host of elemental powers that have appeared in various forms of media.

I like the concept of Pizza as an Element. Should be used with the magic word of Power "Cowabunga!" to conjure that element.🤣

Sorry couldn't resist.

[Terefang 165]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_elements_in_popular_culture

also a nice list of elements with context

[yeti1069 345]

On 12/26/2019 at 1:12 PM, c__beck said:

The Elementalist talent give us the four classic Western elements. But Eastern philosophy has their own setup of elements.

For example, Japan has earth, water, fire, wind and void whereas Chinese wuxing philosophy has wood, fire, earth, metal, water. Heck, many JRPGs have light/dark as a separate dichotomy of elements that doesn't interact with earth/water/fire/wind.

Light/positive energy:

• Elementalist: Add the non-lethal effect
• Elementalist (Improved): They can see in the dark and can never be blinded: remove 3 setback dice from any dice pool due to darkness

Dark/negative energy:

• Elementalist: Add the deadly effect
• Elementalist (Improved): They are surrounded by a cloak of shadows, gaining them +1 Dice add of concealment at all times (CRB110). A character can spend 2 advantages from a check to ignore this concealment until the end of the encounter/scene

Just off the top of my head, will need playtesting and a second look.

I feel like the dark/negative effect needs some immunity effect like the other elements have, and the concealment bonus seems low.

 

Anyone have other ideas here? In my setting, the dark/negative plane is associated with undeath and devoid of life. I'm thinking it could grant not needing to breath, or possibly eat. It could also grant some immunity to undead--maybe they view the character as an undead? I'm ok with this one being a little on the weaker side since adding 'Deadly' to the Attack spell is very strong.

[yeti1069 345]

Here's what I have so far:

Elementalist adds:

Holy (life): each success deals +2 damage rather than +1 damage vs undead

Unholy (void): each success deals +2 damage rather than +1 damage vs living creatures

Blast (light): gains Blast quality with rating equal to ranks in Knowledge (light that explodes?)

Drain (darkness): damaged target wrapped in cloying shadows that weigh them down; effect functions like gravity with a rating equal to ranks in Knowledge (setbacks imposed on Brawn-based skill checks, besides Resilience, and on Coordination checks)

Elementalist (Improved) adds:

Life -- ? Maybe something about regaining wounds?  Light -- cannot be blinded and can remove bbb imposed due to darkness Void -- does not need to breath (?) and? Darkness -- ?   Any feedback here would be appreciated.

[drainsmith 681]

Fire, ice, candy, and slime with the unifying element, lumps.

[Terefang 165]

2 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

Blast (light): gains Blast quality with rating equal to ranks in Knowledge (light that explodes?)

Blast/Light (Elementalist Only)[+2]: gains Blast and Stun (or Knockback) quality with rating equal to ranks in Knowledge.

Edited January 15 by Terefang

[Terefang 165]

That would imply for the CC Necromancy Spell Action:

Necrotic Attack[+1]: If you select this Additional Effect instead of the normal Effects, you may make an attack against a living creature at Short or Engaged range that deals damage equal to your ranks in Knowledge plus +2 for any uncancelled successes. 

Edited January 15 by Terefang

[phillos 1,518]

Maybe not helpful, but I always enjoyed the magic system in the game Saga Frontier because it was built on yin-yang type forces and they were usually mutually exclusive thematically. So if a character learned one they could never learn the other.  They were things like Light/Shadow, Life/Death, Mind/Soul, Time/Space.  Also the symbolic magic schools card/rune which they never give a good thematic explanation as to why they were mutually exclusive though they were...

So I like the idea of generating a system built around using both positive and negative energies.

[Zszree 245]

On 1/14/2020 at 10:52 PM, yeti1069 said:

Here's what I have so far:

Elementalist adds:

Holy (life): each success deals +2 damage rather than +1 damage vs undead

Unholy (void): each success deals +2 damage rather than +1 damage vs living creatures

Blast (light): gains Blast quality with rating equal to ranks in Knowledge (light that explodes?)

Drain (darkness): damaged target wrapped in cloying shadows that weigh them down; effect functions like gravity with a rating equal to ranks in Knowledge (setbacks imposed on Brawn-based skill checks, besides Resilience, and on Coordination checks)

Elementalist (Improved) adds:

Life -- ? Maybe something about regaining wounds?  Light -- cannot be blinded and can remove bbb imposed due to darkness Void -- does not need to breath (?) and? Darkness -- ?   Any feedback here would be appreciated.

This is pretty cool stuff!  I have a couple of thoughts.

Life -- When healing another, you heal 1 wound or you heal the target for 2 wounds per success.

Void -- doesn't need to breath and counterspellng has no effect or only adds a setback die instead of upgrading your difficulty because the magics is sucked into your Void?  😃  And maybe Dispelling one of your magics adds a setback die

Darkness -- you're always considered to be in dim light or in a shadows adding 1 or 2 setback dice for people to notice you

 

Thinking of Wuxia Elements like Wood and Metal

Elementalist adds:

Barkskin (wood): spells gain Primal only effects regardless of Magic skill

Shiny (metal): barrier spells gain Reflective quality 

Elementalist (Improved) adds:

Wood -- +1 soak and you can apply have your soak value (rounded down) or maybe ranks in Knowledge to soak Stun damage that is normally not soakable (dunno how powerful that would be though) 

Metal -- immune to lightning damage ... you're the perfect conductor!  lol  

Anyways, that's what I've got so far.  😃

 

Edited January 17 by Zszree
forgot air adds Lightning already. =)

[yeti1069 345]

2 hours ago, Zszree said:

This is pretty cool stuff!  I have a couple of thoughts.

Life -- When healing another, you heal 1 wound or you heal the target for 2 wounds per success.

Void -- doesn't need to breath and counterspellng has no effect or only adds a setback die instead of upgrading your difficulty because the magics is sucked into your Void?  😃  And maybe Dispelling one of your magics adds a setback die

Darkness -- you're always considered to be in dim light or in a shadows adding 1 or 2 setback dice for people to notice you

 

Thinking of Wuxia Elements like Wood and Metal

Elementalist adds:

Barkskin (wood): spells gain Primal only effects regardless of Magic skill

Shiny (metal): barrier spells gain Reflective quality 

Elementalist (Improved) adds:

Wood -- +1 soak and you can apply have your soak value (rounded down) or maybe ranks in Knowledge to soak Stun damage that is normally not soakable (dunno how powerful that would be though) 

Metal -- immune to lightning damage ... you're the perfect conductor!  lol  

Anyways, that's what I've got so far.  😃

 

This gave me a great idea, thanks!

For my world, Void is the plane of negation, unlife, undeath, and I'm thinking the Improved effect could be to make counterspelling better against others (would include friendly casting as well, I think). 

 

Life could be "Whenever you would regain wounds, gain back 1 additional wound," or "When you regain strain at the end of an encounter with a Discipline or Cool check you may spend advantage to regain wounds." 

Another option could be the ability to spend advantage in combat to regain wounds.

Automatic concealment for Darkness seems weak compared to the other Improved effects. Maybe protected from scrying effects? A little narrow, but along with the concealment effect might feel like enough?

[yeti1069 345]

Thinking the Void improved effect could have one of the following effects (thoughts?):

• Add two setbacks to any spell cast by someone else within Medium range of you.
• When taking the Counterspell maneuver, upgrade the difficulty of spells cast by other characters (friend or foe) twice instead of once.
• When taking the Counterspell maneuver, extend the range of the effect to Long range.
• Spells that target you, or include you in their area of effect have their difficulty upgraded once.

For Darkness, I'm thinking it may grant 2 levels of Concealment at all times and immunity to scrying.

 

I'm considering for the Light Attack effect, having that cause Blindness by spending 2 advantage for a number of rounds equal to ranks in Knowledge.

Not sure what I would do with Darkness on the Attack effect.