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The Rise of Skywalker Criticism Thread *SPOILERS*

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6 hours ago, Odanan said:

Yes. I did see it coming. And I actually enjoyed that she razed King's Landing. Makes a lot of sense. "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." - H. L. Mencken

But everything else in the last season felt rushed, forced and/or bad fan service.

Yes, they didn't. They could do exactly how Marvel was handled: pick the best stories and improve/change them to fit the silver screen.

Yeah if you think that'd actually go down well, you haven't been paying attention to the Star Wars fandom at large. No disrespect Odanan, I like you, but have these fans EVER liked change of ANY kind, especially to something they claim to love?

Even the slightest changes would be, "Disney ruining it".

Gods forbid they start blaming, "The SJWs" for things.

By the way, we got that cherry picked and improved EU, and it's called Star Wars: Rebels.

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18 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Yeah if you think that'd actually go down well, you haven't been paying attention to the Star Wars fandom at large. No disrespect Odanan, I like you, but have these fans EVER liked change of ANY kind, especially to something they claim to love?

Even the slightest changes would be, "Disney ruining it".

Gods forbid they start blaming, "The SJWs" for things.

By the way, we got that cherry picked and improved EU, and it's called Star Wars: Rebels.

Way to project your insecurities on other people there, KC.

everything-you-just-said-was-wrong-gif-4

(tlj brought us a couple of useful moments, at least)

The Clone Wars; liked.  Rogue One; liked.  Solo; liked (by those who gave it a chance following the clusterfunk that was the last jedi, anyway).  The Mandalorian; liked.  Oh yes - and your own example of a "cherry picked and improved EU" (that would amount to change, would it not?) - Rebels; liked.

What the vast majority of "these fans" (as you so derisively categorise them) actually object to is poor storytelling and wasted potential.  Something I would have expected you to understand, given your own stance on Rise of Skywalker.  Something that the sequel trilogy - unfortunately - has in buckets.

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I liked the EU books when I was younger but didn't particularly care when they quashed them as I figured they'd just stitch the good parts together. Rebels was okay and Thrawn was cool but by nature of it being a kids show he was ultimately wasted. RO and Solo were solid and I'll gladly rewatch them. Mando was good and the new Clone Wars stuff looks promising. Resistance existed. There's about 30 minutes of good content in the ST which is really baffling considering how capable the writers can be on the side projects. I could forgive that though if there was even the tiniest bit of evidence they had a plan in place.

Most people say TLJ is what killed the ST and I disagree, the ST was doomed from the get go because they didn't give enough of a **** to bother any proper preparation for it. They threw money at and got bank back so in the end they still don't give a ****. Fans don't matter to Disney, they only matter to other fans when their views don't align. Consumers will continue to shell out money for content because that's what they do so Disney will keep giving us what they will. I'm thankful that there's at least some good stuff coming from the side.

I don't even blame people for liking the movies because as far as movies these day go they were adequate. I do pity them that they accept the dross and even defend it.

 

Also the killed Nien Numb off screen. That's pretty rude.

Edited by McFoy
Lol

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5 hours ago, JJ48 said:

It might go faster if you helped out, you know.

People are bullheaded & my actions are more of a foundation. It would be presumptuous to assume I alone could largely influence the world as a whole but I have confidence that they'll look back upon me as a great thinker in the centuries to come.

 

4 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Not really his MO.

Please don't assume my pronouns.

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Jeez everyone, can y'all be nicer and not passive aggressive as h*ll to each other for like a day or something? I come here for insightful discussion, and all I find are grow men and women arguing like they're small children ( and that's an insult to small children).

Edited by JJH_BATMAN

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Ok, sorry for my slightly angry rant, I just wish everyone could be nicer. As I was discussing with @KCDodger the other day, everyone has the right to an opinion, no matter how silly that opinion may be in your opinion. You can try to RESPECTFULLY change their opinion by being like “your idea is cool but in my opinion I think this is right because of x, y, and z.” But at this point, I don’t think anyone here is willing to change their opinion on certain things (the sequels especially The Last Jedi cough cough). So please everyone, try to be kind to eachother, or at the bare minimum not rude. I think everyone will be more happy this way. Anyway we all have one thing in common, we all like Star Wars in some way, shape, or form!

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Truthfully, you don't have to respect an opinion at all.  Acknowledging it as existing, yes, but people disrespect opinions all the time, however...

...in a forum, with rules, it is a different story.  You CAN respect people, too, while disrespecting the opinion, because an opinion is NOT a person.

For example:

I think The Last Jedi was a great movie, and when I read criticisms of it, some of them strike me as short sighted and dumb.

But, John, who said TLJ is awful and garbage, I still respect

 

:) 

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On 1/24/2020 at 2:35 PM, KelRiever said:

Truthfully, you don't have to respect an opinion at all.  Acknowledging it as existing, yes, but people disrespect opinions all the time, however...

...in a forum, with rules, it is a different story.  You CAN respect people, too, while disrespecting the opinion, because an opinion is NOT a person.

For example:

I think The Last Jedi was a great movie, and when I read criticisms of it, some of them strike me as short sighted and dumb.

But, John, who said TLJ is awful and garbage, I still respect

 

:) 

I think the trouble is that we've become much more "we are our opinions" sort of society. Disrespect of an opinion has become tantamount to disrespect of the one holding it. We've gotten so much of our identities wrapped up in what we consume that criticism of those things is criticism of ourselves. Context and feelings have become the priority.

 

 

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On 1/27/2020 at 5:30 AM, Frimmel said:

I think the trouble is that we've become much more "we are our opinions" sort of society. Disrespect of an opinion has become tantamount to disrespect of the one holding it. We've gotten so much of our identities wrapped up in what we consume that criticism of those things is criticism of ourselves. Context and feelings have become the priority.

My 12 year old daughter, who is a MCU buff, was called a misogynist when she was giving her reasons why she didn't like the Captain Marvel movie awhile back during an online discussion. 

We both had a good laugh about that.

Its true you can't just dislike something these days, maybe think the writing was poor, felt an actor(ess) phoned it in or for whatever reason something didn't move you like it did someone else. According to those that disagree with your viewpoint, everyone has to have some sinister motivation behind liking or not liking something.

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16 hours ago, kris40k said:

According to those that disagree with your viewpoint, everyone has to have some sinister motivation behind liking or not liking something.

That's not just in one's media tastes; that's a - to me very concerning - element of how polarised society is becoming behind the glass mirrors of everyone's personal social media echo-chambers.

You see the same thing in political news, as well. People can't just disagree with a policy and be trying to object to it; they have to have a 'scheme' to 'wreck' it. Everything tends to get put in such black and white terms it really drives me to despair.

Everyone wants simple answers to complicated questions. "It's good", "It's bad", "They disagree because they're just bad people", "Its all [insert name here]'s fault".

They're all - you know what, they're not even 'lies', but they're 'half truths' - something infinitely more pernicious and dangerous because they're just true enough to pass casual scrutiny by human beings who, deep down, mostly just want to feel validated by being part of a group and being agreed with by people whose opinions they value.

Me not agreeing for [reason that matters to me but not to you] is not an attack on you. And you saying the reverse it is not an attack on me. Sometimes we're never going to agree - which is fine as long as we both understand why we think what we do (even if we might privately question the other's sanity for thinking that).

16 hours ago, kris40k said:

My 12 year old daughter, who is a MCU buff, was called a misogynist when she was giving her reasons why she didn't like the Captain Marvel movie awhile back during an online discussion. 

We both had a good laugh about that.

Its true you can't just dislike something these days, maybe think the writing was poor, felt an actor(ess) phoned it in or for whatever reason something didn't move you like it did someone else. According to those that disagree with your viewpoint, everyone has to have some sinister motivation behind liking or not liking something.

Negative labels are easy ones to throw. Because if they're true - to the people doing the throwing - that instantly means you don't have to listen to the rest of what the person so labelled says.

I used to think Danae from Non Sequitur was funny. These days - having met her grown-up (well....'older') equivalents I'm not so sure.

 

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19 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

That's not just in one's media tastes; that's a - to me very concerning - element of how polarised society is becoming behind the glass mirrors of everyone's personal social media echo-chambers.

You see the same thing in political news, as well. People can't just disagree with a policy and be trying to object to it; they have to have a 'scheme' to 'wreck' it. Everything tends to get put in such black and white terms it really drives me to despair.

Everyone wants simple answers to complicated questions. "It's good", "It's bad", "They disagree because they're just bad people", "Its all [insert name here]'s fault".

They're all - you know what, they're not even 'lies', but they're 'half truths' - something infinitely more pernicious and dangerous because they're just true enough to pass casual scrutiny by human beings who, deep down, mostly just want to feel validated by being part of a group and being agreed with by people whose opinions they value.

Me not agreeing for [reason that matters to me but not to you] is not an attack on you. And you saying the reverse it is not an attack on me. Sometimes we're never going to agree - which is fine as long as we both understand why we think what we do (even if we might privately question the other's sanity for thinking that).

❤️

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4 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

Does anybody actually like ROS? Where they rank it at least in their top 3 Star Wars movies, or even top 5?

Yeah. Lots of people actually adore TRoS. Some even say it's their favorite. But you'll never hear that on a Star Wars forum. You'll hear it from people who you'd talk to in person. Not making a jab, by the way. Just what I've learned as of late.

I certainly don't put it in my top three, not even close. That's probably always going to be ESB, TLJ, and RoTS. In no particular order. But it's above Episodes I and II for certain, the more I think about the content of the movie itself.

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34 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Yeah. Lots of people actually adore TRoS. Some even say it's their favorite. But you'll never hear that on a Star Wars forum. 

I've only seen it once, but I enjoyed it.

Not top three (ESB, ANH, RO) but certainly not bottom three (TPM, TLJ, AotC) either.

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3 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

Does anybody actually like ROS? Where they rank it at least in their top 3 Star Wars movies, or even top 5? 

 

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Yeah. Lots of people actually adore TRoS... But you'll never hear that on a Star Wars forum. 

 

Its about the middle of the pack, which considering 11 movies, would put it close to 5'ish.

To be fair, there is a pretty big gap between Empire, Rogue One, Solo, and the rest of the movies. Its above TLJ, AotC, and the updated version of RotJ. 

Edited by kris40k

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