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The Rise of Skywalker Criticism Thread *SPOILERS*

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6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I hope for your sake that you try to make a joke. Because the alternative is so much worse.

Oh, this has got to be good.

tenor.gif

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Save your breath, or at least leave me out of it

E: you know what... I should save my breath. I hope to read new, interesting, well reasoned opinions.

Simple as that. If it happens that I'm the odd one out with that then I shut up. Finally, I know.

So, like your opinions?

You made the bed, now you don't want to lay in it?

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10 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Fantastic. By all means choose a word that suits, I'll try and remember. Fore warning, I'll probably forget with all the folks that were chatting with and my terrible memory for names, it's not an offense, just roll with it is it happens. Promise you I'll do the same.

You have a very interesting perspective on the SW universe friend. Perhaps not entirely unique, but interesting. If I were to summarize it, it seems more like you don't want the things that make it what it is. Or maybe, selectively so? 

I'd like to ask you to pause and consider for a moment, my perspective. But of what happened per se, but how. Because to make some of the great many assumptions your making, along with the severity of them in some cases, is quite frankly unfair to many in this discussion. To be certain my friend, your grouping a large number of individuals and aiming a label at their head, with a few unkind words attached to boot. So please, parley with me a moment.

Would it surprise you (or our friendo @GreenDragoon) to know that I full well expected Luke to die in 8? And I mean like, from the trailer for 7 I was betting on our boy biting it. After seven I was unsure the timing on it within 8 itself, changed my prediction from mid to late movie. But I was also expecting, and ready to throw some money at it, a time of story telling of an old Luke. I was also counting on there being time for them to get that made later with a, you guessed it, time skip. Because while yes it's a rote thing of the entire saga, it always was the right move for how this story is told. And functionally there's nothing wrong with it. 

It reminds me of having your proverbial parents read you stories as a kid. (Or okay seriously I could pick one of a great number of franchise that do this and not some nostalgia trip, but here we are) and when they start the story with 'once upon a time'. The mood is set. The framework is done. Heaven forbid they start with 'one day' or you throw a fit. And when they start somewhere different from the last ending your little child mind starts asking questions. But what happened to this or that you'd say. And they'd chide you that they'll tell you about it another night. And then the next night, you ask well what happened to so-n-so that made them sad in the last story you told me? And then they start again: well, once upon a time...

It's like the ritual of the story telling experience. Just like dimming the lights before a play, or the poised still silence of the musicians just before a concert. 

And that's what we want to get in our experience. There's the epic opening score, leads into the scroll with our 'a long time ago', scroll fades pause... Pan down to space battle some time further from our last story... And we're off. 

Because after that, it really doesn't matter where you go. Like, I'm down as long as the rest is respectful of the source. 

New lady Jedi lead? Sweet. It's not like it's a entirely new edgy concept anyway. Sup Ashoka. Hey Bastilla. Aayla, welcome back. 

Stormtrooper dropout, potentially a sensitive. I'm down. Wedge meets Mace? Yeah I'll take that. Atton, thanks for joining us. Rex, always a pleasure.

Here's my own take of 7: you did TOO MUCH fan service. Yeah Rey's a Mary Sue. So is Finn. So is Poe. They're ALL worthy of that badge. But that's not why I dislike their characters. I dislike them because they're so blessed hero worshipy that we never get much out of them. 7 plays like three kids went to a meet and greet with their favorite band back stage and then got invited on stage. Its not different, it's old and dull. 

While your ready to slap me with a label as not ready for change, or wrong for wanting the foundations to stay the same whole you build this new Castle, please consider that I was actually in the forward side of yeah, let's change some stuff. Kinda sucks that we agree on that, and yet still, I'm 'wrong' to you, and not just different from you.

I'll save the Luke scene discussion for another time. Because my take on it is waaay Different from pretty much any other opinion I've ever encountered. And yeah, I thought he was going to die. But the way they did it was really dumb, and fell emotionally flat to me. 

Okay. so.

I had a huge reply typed out and it took me about thirty minutes. It was really nicely and neatly written, and I really enjoyed the points you threw out and I thought you'd like my responses too. But I managed to lose it all. I'll come back to this in time but, man, right now I just wanna spray down some raiders in fallout.

I'm sorry dude, this was going to be a great reply. I promise. I will get it back to you.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

I don't know how reliable this is but Wookiepedia says TROS included appearances of the N-1 and Fang fighters and honestly that seems a bit ridiculous.

Honestly, whilst I know the intent was to go for a "so many ships" spectacle, it reached the point where there was too much stuff on screen to appreciate. Going back and going through the ships with a fine tooth comb frame-by-frame I assume you'll basically see everything you've ever seen in a canon show or film somewhere in that mass.

Why, if you don't mind my asking, are N-1s and Fangs a step too far for you?

We've already seen N-1s being used in the period via Battlefront - granted they're specifically called out as antiques but given both its history and looks I can see the N-1 being the sort of ship a collector of antiques would go for.

(If they'd shown a professional military still using them after more than half a century, fair enough)

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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All right, back on topic... so here are my thoughts on Rise of Skywalker:

 

I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. Rewinding the movie in my head, there are several things that should really bum me out about this - but somehow, they don't. I think it's very flawed, sometimes downright illogical, but also a thrilling rollercoaster and wonderful escapism. A joyride filled to the brim with convenient plot devices and McGuffins. But I can't lie, I had a blast watching this movie. Looks like I'm just a sucker for JJ Abrams' style of telling a story. I don't particularly like that, because I'm aware of his shortcomings as a writer, but at this point, I was quite "meh" about the new trilogy, so I'm quite glad it ended on a high note. Good enough for me.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Okay. so.

I had a huge reply typed out and it took me about thirty minutes. It was really nicely and neatly written, and I really enjoyed the points you threw out and I thought you'd like my responses too. But I managed to lose it all. I'll come back to this in time but, man, right now I just wanna spray down some raiders in fallout.

I'm sorry dude, this was going to be a great reply. I promise. I will get it back to you.

I've soooooo been there with this forum. Recently got a new phone, and now it happens all the time. I've taken to writing everything in notes app then transferring it. That sucks so bad. Yeah just tag me whenever and I'll be there 😁 

Edit: speaking of, there's another franchise like I said that uses that time slip and intro to set the stage for a huge universe. Because...

War... War never changes...😎

Edited by ForceSensitive
Spelling of my gawd my auto type hates me kill me now.

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5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Honestly, whilst I know the intent was to go for a "so many ships" spectacle, it reached the point where there was too much stuff on screen to appreciate. Going back and going through the ships with a fine tooth comb frame-by-frame I assume you'll basically see everything you've ever seen in a canon show or film somewhere in that mass.

Why, if you don't mind my asking, are N-1s and Fangs a step too far for you?

We've already seen N-1s being used in the period via Battlefront - granted they're specifically called out as antiques but given both its history and looks I can see the N-1 being the sort of ship a collector of antiques would go for.

(If they'd shown a professional military still using them after more than half a century, fair enough)

It's actually not that ridiculous when you consider how long the original y-wings were being used. It was just sort of a shock when I read it on the fan wiki. And you're probably right. I wonder how many new ships are even there and how many are just reused. I have a feeling there's a lack of new ships in that fleet.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/3/2020 at 6:51 PM, GreenDragoon said:

Has this been shared yet? I thought it's pretty funny, pokes fun at a lot of the weaknesses

 

Yeah, Pitch Meeting is TIGHT.  They poked fun at the last jedi as well (it was super easy, barely an inconvenience).

 

Edited by FTS Gecko

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The Rise of Skywalker was good, and certainly good enough.

Now, there are things that are problems, but frankly, that certain are so bent out of shape over it, and also The Last Jedi, to me shows me that really the Disney films are the best thing that could have happened to the franchise.

Honestly, Return of the Jedi was a worse film than episode 7,8 and 9.  But nostalgia.  Nothing will ever match Star Wars and The Empire Strikes back because you can't ever go back in time and understand how amazing and ground breaking those films were.

And I for one am happy that Disney has assigned people to do the new films who could put something together like they have.  I mean, if you wanted Lucas' vision back, you can go rewatch Clone Wars and see how that has gone.  If people wanted more original trilogy, they can rewatch that, and see how it has been chopped up and re-edited and murdered throughout every edition.  And if they want the truly horribly EU, then they can go read the books from over the span of decades, some of them not worth the paper they were printed on.

I think fans needed a proper spear stabbed into the way they saw things, and while I don't expect people to be able to put their point of view hang ups in the past, the new films are as good as anyone should have wanted them to be.  And I love them.  Not as much as Star Wars and Empire, but there can only be one best, or in this case a tie for the best :)

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2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

To be honest, I always rather liked the supposed original idea that Endor was going to be Kashyyk. Replace the Ewoks with a mob of angry wookies and it makes rather more sense.

 

The Ewoks could have been very scary (see Battlefront 2's Ewok Hunt) but they were acted by little people in heavy suits. They looked slow, plodding, and not very impressive as far as being warriors. It looked too silly seeing what was supposedly the Emperor's most elite troops getting bested by them. I would love it if somehow we got Ewoks in a modern Star Wars story. Use models/actors for up-close shots but CGI for anything showing them doing some action. Make them look fierce and actually competent warriors. 

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10 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

 

The Ewoks could have been very scary (see Battlefront 2's Ewok Hunt) but they were acted by little people in heavy suits. They looked slow, plodding, and not very impressive as far as being warriors. It looked too silly seeing what was supposedly the Emperor's most elite troops getting bested by them. I would love it if somehow we got Ewoks in a modern Star Wars story. Use models/actors for up-close shots but CGI for anything showing them doing some action. Make them look fierce and actually competent warriors. 

I think you are on to something with it being the way the Ewoks look like little people in heavy suits. A modern take would have the Ewoks be a lot more bear like. The small and cute teddy bear was meant to be a fake-out. We saw a bit of this idea with Han at spear point and trying to cook him. I've always played along with the idea that you're blowing them off for being little cute teddy bears but they were really nasty pieces of work. I think that is the PG thing. I usually considered that they were picking off the stray biker scout to feed the tribe well before the rebels showed up. 

Star Trek: Enterprise gets bagged on but there is an episode with a Gorn in it. And it is updated via CGI to be a much more velociraptor or alligator or man-dragon on two legs sort of strong and fast and smart enemy. A far cry from the guy in the rubber suit of TOS. 

 

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22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

To be honest, I always rather liked the supposed original idea that Endor was going to be Kashyyk. Replace the Ewoks with a mob of angry wookies and it makes rather more sense.

Wow, that would be amazing! But you know, Lucas had to sell toys...

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