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[Spoiler Thread] Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Spoiler Thread]

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Saw it last night, thought it was great fun.

One huge hot mess of stuff going on and a lot to unpack.

The grown up armada player in me that wants star wars to be serious of course has a lot of issues

- lukes xwing and the sith hunters ships just being completely spaceworthy after how many years? Of just sitting there. 

- the logistics of maintaing the sith fleet all that time on a barren world. Even a couple of one liners at the conference table would have helped that.

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With a 1-year old at home I doubt I’ll be able to see this anytime soon, I’ve indulged in spoilers. 

I have to ask and perhaps get a bit of clarification; are there Armada worthy ships displayed here? 

There are the super-laser ISD’s. Does the First Order get anything new? Does the resistance fleet have Cap ships or not? 

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13 hours ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

There are the super-laser ISD’s. Does the First Order get anything new? Does the resistance fleet have Cap ships or not? 

No new capital ships for the First Order (one new transport thing for the Knights of Ren, the new TIE Triangle for the Sith Fleet, and the new TIE Whisper for the First Order).

The Resistance had a CR90, some A-Wings, B-Wings, X-Wings and Y-Wings.

The "people" fleet that turns up in the end is the one in the trailer. There are only a couple more "wide" shots of it in the film than the ones we got in the trailer, and a couple of "in battle" shots. There seem to be a few of new ships in there, but I don't think most of them got full 3d models. In the trailer shots they look like copy-pasted 2d images, and it was mostly existing ships (from Rogue One, TLJ and Rebels, maybe Clone Wars) that got included in any detail. There's a new not-the-Assault Frigate ship in there, but that's mostly it.

When the DVD comes out we can go through it frame by frame and see what we can find, but I wouldn't get too excited. I don't see us getting Sequel-era Armada.

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9 hours ago, Audio Weasel said:

My main problem with it is the same problem I had with TFA.  Too much Empire and Jedi in the mix.  Write your own **** movie, JJ.

That is a wierd complaint for a film in the final trilogy of the jedi era

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I over all liked it, just felt though he was telling a movie and a half worth of story in one movie. Shows what a mistake it was to have no real story primer. All it takes is one arrogant jerk to get his way and ruin it. JJ did his best to try to fix it think he redeemed Rey and Ben as characters, was fine with Palps coming back. Just felt he he had to do too much to tell a cohesive story. 

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12 hours ago, Audio Weasel said:

My main problem with it is the same problem I had with TFA.  Too much Empire and Jedi in the mix.  Write your own **** movie, JJ.

Aside from the final confrontation with the Emperor nothing else felt like a copy of anything before.

Yes there were allusions, similar to how the final battle in Rogue One is kind of the reverse of ROTJ, but the structure wasn’t at all the same.

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40 minutes ago, Spectre8174 said:

I over all liked it, just felt though he was telling a movie and a half worth of story in one movie. Shows what a mistake it was to have no real story primer. All it takes is one arrogant jerk to get his way and ruin it. JJ did his best to try to fix it think he redeemed Rey and Ben as characters, was fine with Palps coming back. Just felt he he had to do too much to tell a cohesive story. 

He pissed away the best of TLJ. It’s JJ’s own **** fault he had to start over. 

-Rey being a nobody and implying that anyone could be a hero regardless of station or lineage. Gone

-The little kid using the force to grab his broom, implying that the force is not and should not be the sole possession of the Sith and Jedi? Gone. 

Back to the **** “you must be related to or created by Palpatine to ******* matter in this story. The force and all its grandeur is merely a tool of the Jedi or Sith.”

 

 

I overall enjoyed the movie. I can also tear holes in it. It’s a solid “B” movie. Fun spectacle, but on first viewing I didn’t find much real substance. Later viewing slay change my attitude

Edited by Church14

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On 12/21/2019 at 6:04 AM, Forresto said:

I assume the Sith fleet were retrofitted fISDs that we’re brought with the Imperials Palpatine retreat into the unknown regions following Jakku. 

It’s a lot like the Battle of Endor where they don’t really show the capital ships engaging capital ships, the implication though is of course they did.

This movie reminds me a lot of Return of the Jedi in terms of how I feel about what they showed and didn’t show.


RotJ or Rogue One had about 1000% more fleet battle action than this movie.  It’s my single biggest gripe (naturally, as an Armada player!).

And the tactical decision making/writing made no sense.  

My gripes:
1) Oh - the fighters found the ground antenna.  We could bomb it since there’s apparently no TIE fighters around yet...or we can mount a needlessly complex ground assault!  

2) Early on one of the fighter pilots panics and says “What can we do against those [ISD’s]?!?!”, implying that all is lost...but then after the fleet arrives we see a single Y-wing take an ISD out.  Definite lazy writing, or (more likely) they were short on time and just wanted to wrap up the perfunctory space battle.  Disappointing.

3). I don’t think they showed the Rebel fleet firing a single turbocannon...all we saw them do was arrive, then fall out of the sky.  C’mon JJ, if you’re gonna give us a massive fleet, give us at least a shot or two of a Free Virgilia Bunkerbuster dropping a Bunkerbusting bomb!  Or some laser fire being exchanged by MC75’s and Nebulons and the ISDs....or Hammerheads ramming things, or the Ghost shooting down some fighters, or ANYTHING AT ALL.


I guess we’re supposed to fill in the missing scenes with our imagination (like ROTJ) but give us a little something more to work with dude!

What a goll durn disappointment.

 

The rest of the movie I liked.

Edited by Maturin

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30 minutes ago, Church14 said:

He pissed away the best of TLJ. It’s JJ’s own **** fault he had to start over. 

-Rey being a nobody and implying that anyone could be a hero regardless of station or lineage. Gone

-The little kid using the force to grab his broom, implying that the force is not and should not be the sole possession of the Sith and Jedi? Gone. 

Back to the **** “you must be related to or created by Palpatine to ******* matter in this story. The force and all its grandeur is merely a tool of the Jedi or Sith.”

 

 

I overall enjoyed the movie. I can also tear holes in it. It’s a solid “B” movie. Fun spectacle, but ok first viewing I didn’t find much real substance. Later viewing slay change my attitude.

Considering there really was nothing I liked about Last Jedi and how I felt it squandered the best of Force awakens and didnt like what Rian Johnson did at all, I do have to admit you are right in JJ should never have given up control. We never would have ended up with a disjointed hot mess that was the middle of the story.

Edited by Spectre8174

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17 hours ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

I have to ask and perhaps get a bit of clarification; are there Armada worthy ships displayed here? 

There are the super-laser ISD’s. Does the First Order get anything new? Does the resistance fleet have Cap ships or not? 

 

Feels like they just went through ILM's archives and re-used whatever ship models they already had on hand. 

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1 hour ago, Forresto said:

Aside from the final confrontation with the Emperor nothing else felt like a copy of anything before.

Yes there were allusions, similar to how the final battle in Rogue One is kind of the reverse of ROTJ, but the structure wasn’t at all the same.

Structurally I agree with you, for the most part (although the story beats were very similar).  The part where Ren inform Rey of her lineage is EXTREMELY close to the Vader reveal in Empire, then the Ren and Rey fight in the throne room was EXTREMELY close to the Vader and Luke fight in the throne room in Jedi.  There were a few other sequences that stuck too close, IMO.  Full disclosure: I am going to see it again next weekend, with the mindset of trying to enjoy it for what it is.  There were some things I really liked: the Poe/Finn bromance, the humor was on point for the most part, the treasure hunt was nice, and I LOVE the little black market droid Tech.

Edited by Audio Weasel

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On 12/21/2019 at 8:04 AM, Forresto said:

I assume the Sith fleet were retrofitted fISDs that we’re brought with the Imperials Palpatine retreat into the unknown regions following Jakku. 

On 12/21/2019 at 7:51 AM, ISD Avenger said:

Yeah I have no idea why they packed Lando off to fetch hundreds of capital ships. One fighter per ISD is all that was needed...

Did the fleet actually engage the ISDs? I don’t recall them doing so. Apart from a corvette I think.

It’s a lot like the Battle of Endor where they don’t really show the capital ships engaging capital ships, the implication though is of course they did.

This movie reminds me a lot of Return of the Jedi in terms of how I feel about what they showed and didn’t show.

The visual dictionary says that it is a really a full Sith fleet made on the planet. The red stormtroopers are the same with each army broken up by re-canon Sith Lords. Revan is back baby!

I really just wanted ship vs ship battle for just a few seconds. Or a B-wing taking down something. On the bright side the movie did a lot for X-wing & Legion. Armada got more from TLJ in terms of a core Resistance fleet.

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On 12/21/2019 at 3:47 PM, eliteone said:

I heard there were scenes that were cut between Palp and Knights of Ren / Pyrde to continue kidnapping children and send them to "programming" like Finn and his new friend. That's what the Strormtroopers were doing when you see them go from house to house on the planet where they hack C3PO. But even that is flimsy, all you need is a few of those lasers on some ships, it would still be logistically crazy to staff hundreds of Star Destroyers in the unknown regions without people finding out. 

 

Also, what bugs me is "Oh your weird force link can restore my body let me use the force and suck your life force out" instead of "I've finally found a force healer I'm just going to use the force and all this crazy machinery to make her heal me against her will." - the first way is JJ doing some deus ex machina junk, the second way establishes why Rey was so important to Palpatine. 

 

Also disappointed with the "space battle"...SPEND SOME MONEY DISNEY. 

 

Otherwise I did enjoy the movie - I like how they ended it, but you could've gotten there so many other ways.  For me, it was "good, not great". 

yes, in many ways letting me go really mad at all the sloppiness and lack of detail that I think I deserve as serious adult viewer. 

and yet it felt ok in a way 7 and 8 never ever did. I would no one talk out of seeing it in the theatres and paying sentimental homage to the saga.

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To those worried about how the took care of crewing the ships, and why they all fell so easily. The conference table did say they had no way to crew them and that they didn't have the people for it. So I am sure most if not all the ships were empty and needed to be guided out by the flagship with the comm tower. This would also be why the SDs were worthless in that fight.

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When we walked out you'd think we were at a funeral. I was bracing for disappointment based on what I was hearing... I'm sad my fears were validated and more.

Most Star Wars movies end with some kind of discussion over how cool parts of it were, or at least applause at the end for being a good film. There was silence as people filed out of this film that, I think, none of us could believe was a Star Wars movie. The movie had no soul, no narration tricks or double-crosses, it's a parade of wish fulfillment fan-fiction with useless exposition sprinkled in for the purpose of generating Wookiepedia articles. The only big secret this film held- Rey Palpatine-  was so melodramatic I'd think it was written in high school.

Even my baseline of entertainment - more spaceships and cool First Order vehicles and vessels- was not met. Apart from the TIE chase at the beginning (which was neat to see TIEs use their hyperdrives finally) the Finalizer and a montage of crashing Resurgents... where the **** is the First Order? For an organization poised to take over the galaxy and forcing the resistance to be, well, a resistance, by indications here the First Order is so on the ropes they need Palpatine's "Last Order" (Are you serious!?) in order to carry out their plan of universal domination. Even giving the Finalizer some new escort ships would have gone a long way to showing us that the First Order is still out there.

I often rag on how bad the prequels were by pointing out Hayden Christensen's cringingly awkward performances as Anakin in 2 and 3 (why does Padme like him? persistence?), but I'd say this was worse. In fact I'd say it's the worst out of the saga. It's one thing when your lead actor is awkward... other plot threads and characters can pick up the rest of the story and make it good (as Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor did). It's another thing when the plot is this threadbare, serving only to lurch from one exposition scene or firefight to the next.

TLJ left us with some interesting questions and thoughts. What of the Skywalker legacy, now that the saber is broken and its last member is committed to the side of evil? What if the Jedi/Sith split understanding of the force is, in fact, wrong? What of the arms merchants perpetuating war so they can profit off it? Can Rey be a hero even though she comes from nothing?

NOPE! Here's your cheap cameos, a re-heated villain from the original trilogy, and some useless facts that don't matter to the plot. Enjoy moments that nobody asked for like Chewbacca finally getting his gold medallion from ANH!

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This movie was full of so many missed opportunities and moments.

Coming off of The Last Jedi I was expecting Hux to quietly stage a coup, and sometime during the plot he'd launch it at Kylo Ren's moment of weakness to unseat him. I was expecting a cool moment like that to happen early and deflate- I didn't expect it to not happen at all, and I didn't expect Hux to be nothing more than a one-not disposable character motivated out of spite.

 

There's another point. When our heroes return to base after rescuing Chewbacca, this is after Leia has died. When he hears the news Chewie falls to the ground, irreconcilable, and waves away Poe. This is also after 3PO has had his memory wipe- effectively killing him, too. Chewie has had to witness all of his friends from the original trilogy die and leave him behind. It would have been a good reminder to us that this is the final installment, and with character deaths earlier it means nobody might come back from this one.

Except... with one jump-cut, 3PO is back. Even Chewie himself came back from the dead after his transport seemingly exploded. With so many fake-outs (and revealing them so soon after these characters "died") it removes any tension or emotion from doing these things in the first place. In fact, I'm surprised any characters died with how many fake-outs there were.

I really did expect Pryde to be the real double-agent, fake-killing Hux to preserve their cover so they can have a bigger say in the plot.

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@Norsehound a lot of people left my theatre talking about the film excitedly, similar to The Last Jedi. I went to National Air and Space so a good mix of people from the region. My row was all over the place, no real consensus one way or another. 

It’s all subjective so I’m not going to nor can I say you’re wrong. I just don’t honestly understand how you can come out of this film and say there is no soul, especially after the excellent and even incredible performances given by the cast.

There are definitely moments, beats I take issue with. However after rewatching Return of the Jedi for the first time in years, and being crushed at how disappointing that movie is, my feeling is The Rise of Skywalker at its lowest does nothing worse while it’s high points exceed those of Return of the Jedi.

To address one concern. The ending montage essentially shows you what The First Order has been up to. They’re spread all over the galaxy trying to maintain control, which works until people begin to rise up against them or the crews mutiny. 

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