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DanteRotterdam

The Rise of Skywalker (Spoiler thread)

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1 hour ago, Seguleh said:

So I finally watched this movie, and I have to say the Trilogie was realy terrible, but one short question: did they mess up the colors of the lightsabers at the end?

 

You mean the hilts she dropped into her Force-created sinkhole? Not sure; I didn't pay too much attention by that point of the movie.

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28 minutes ago, Varlie said:

I think they did after seeing it a second time. During the flashback of Leia's training there was a blue and green saber but when Rey fought Palpi, they were both blue.

The green one was Luke's as he had during the events of RotJ.  Leia's was blue.  No color goof up.

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Didn't they destroy anakins in the last movie?

 

So my two cents to the movie, and since it is a trilogy also a few words to the other 2 movies.

I really dislike all these psykes: Chewbacca is dead, oh no he isn't. Kylo Ren gets kicked down the pit, ah here he climbs up again. Rey destroys the lightsaber, oh no Luke catches it. The helmet women is realy pissed and wants to kill Poe, oh no she gives up all she worked for and helps him. Lock down the star destroyer, but still the falcon can leave.

A lot of These Scenes where so... uncreative. The millenium falcon Shooting down this debris to block the tigh fighters? wow i have never seen such creativity. After several jumps the tie fighters get eaten by a giant Monster... since when can everybody follow everybody through Hyperspace, even tie fighters? 

There were a lot of other small Things that… felt wrong. Now every star destroyer can be a death star? 

 

On the positive side, the main plot arround Kylo and Rey was kind of ok, and the movie really tried to wrap up all lose Ends from the last two movies. It still lacks some Drama... and a real threat. The "we destroy the whole galaxy with our fleet of super weapons" does not feel really threatiening because it is too much. 

 

Overall the trilogy lacks on Story and Drama, overcompensates with even more super weapons. (The two death stars were a huge Investment for the empire, then we got a shotgun death star (star Killer base) that could fire through Hyperspace, and then we got a whole fleet of star destroyer death star ships….) and does too much fanservice. I also have to Point out that this psyke storytelling is  annoying the **** out of me and that too many cheap puns are spoiling the atmosphere.

What I liked on the first 6 movies, that those movies felt like a Sory told in a greatly simulated world/Galaxy, similar to Tolkiens Middle-earth where behind every caste ruin is a nice Story, and even whole languages are made for species. This trilogy felt more like someone wanted to tell a SW Story but didn't know how, so he Kind of retold the old Story and bend the Galaxy so the Story could be told.

I can understand people who enjoy it, but unfortunatly I can't

 

(Sorry for spelling mistakes, my autocorrect is hating me somehow)

 

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13 hours ago, Bojanglez said:

I don't have the latest visual dictionary so am not sure if it was cleared up in there.

I'm finding the answer to many odd issues with this film are "Well, in the visual dictionary..." Which is not good. 

Not getting confused with a movie shouldn't rely on you reading the reference book first.

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2 hours ago, Seguleh said:

Didn't they destroy anakins in the last movie?

 

More like severely damage, but not to the point it can't be repaired. Rey was shown to have the pieces at the end of The Last Jedi.

What I want to know is how that thing survived Bespin.

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And also why Leia has a blue Sabre... I would have guessed green for her, she seems more like a force and Empathie focused character like Luke and lss a fighter like anakin. But OK that is not super determined. Or it was just her training Sabre or smth. 

 

Two more question rose up in my mind: why did poe crash land the millennium falcon? Except of a reason for Rey to show of her awesome sailing skill which she acquired on the desert planet she grew up *cough cough marry sue cough*

 

And how did Rey ray defeat Palpatine? Is there more reason as "all jedi are inside you*, Palpatine wiped the floor with them before and then was restored and showed what the Title of the mystics books really meant. And then he lost worse than VS windu who was super-duper trained, and even windu slipped into the dark side after he defeated Palpatine. 

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30 minutes ago, Seguleh said:

Two more question rose up in my mind: why did poe crash land the millennium falcon? Except of a reason for Rey to show of her awesome sailing skill which she acquired on the desert planet she grew up *cough cough marry sue cough*

I was wondering about the crash as well, just because the landing gear was damaged doesn't mean you can't still hover the falcon in drop it on its belly.  I'm pretty much over the Mary Sue complaint, TROS did a lot to help alleviate this showing more training, a few scenes of her failing, a sweet lightsaber fight where Kylo had the upperhand most of the fight since he was unharmed (at least until Leia distracted him).  I initially thought the same thing about her growing up on a desert planet but she's already shown to be a good pilot both planetary and space so (speaking in game skills) that covers watercraft as well, maybe just a couple setbacks thrown in.

Also, continuing the movie to game process, she did nothing more than what any player would do when the GM throws a massive curve at you.  

GM: The water will be passable in 9 hours
Player: How much time left until the fleet strikes?
GM: 9.5 hours
Other Players: Works for me, plenty of time
Player: **** it, I'm stealing a skiff. What's the difficulty

Edited by Varlie

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45 minutes ago, Seguleh said:

And also why Leia has a blue Sabre... I would have guessed green for her, she seems more like a force and Empathie focused character like Luke and lss a fighter like anakin. But OK that is not super determined. Or it was just her training Sabre or smth. 

 

Two more question rose up in my mind: why did poe crash land the millennium falcon? Except of a reason for Rey to show of her awesome sailing skill which she acquired on the desert planet she grew up *cough cough marry sue cough*

 

And how did Rey ray defeat Palpatine? Is there more reason as "all jedi are inside you*, Palpatine wiped the floor with them before and then was restored and showed what the Title of the mystics books really meant. And then he lost worse than VS windu who was super-duper trained, and even windu slipped into the dark side after he defeated Palpatine. 

Luke's Lightsaber was Green. I believed she had a blue crystal. Luke threw his away when he renounced his Jedihood or something. That being said, I'm largely thinking back in the OT him having the Green saber, the colour of the blade really doesn't constitute a plothole.

No idea. I went for a slash at that part of the movie and missed the entire landing. Given that the Falcon is literally a super optimised lump of junk that had recently survived a number of blind hyperspace jumps, I'm not really surprised if it just crashed now and again. That and Rey isn't a Mary Sue, by definition she isn't because she has very polarizing character flaws that threatens her ruin. E.g. obsession if we were to use the morality system of F&D. She gave into her weakness pretty much entirely and had Kylo not been distracted I felt she would've fallen to the dark side right then and there. I was just glad to see a bit of action for when high level Jedi really went to town.

The Force is by it's definition life and destiny with the Dark Side existing as it's corruption of that. Rey's "All the Jedi within you" was literally destiny getting behind her and giving her a push just to withstand his attack, with her life as the cost. That and I get the impression that his super charged force lighting wasn't something he could just stop even if he wanted to, either she would cut into him or he would be destroyed. Ironically the new strength the Emperor had gained was literally working against him with the aftershocks of his own attack tearing him to pieces.  Now, I mean I'm not exactly happy about that scene myself but whatever, star wars is a fairly high fantasy setting by it's very nature and considering the absolute pigs dinner they made out of the "trilogy", it was ok popcorn sweeter.

My main real complaint is that I honestly don't think those writers know what to do with Finn, who was slapped by the force so hard he developed Force Sensitivity, after spending an entire movie without it (TLJ). I mean, I think the actor's great and the subtext behind why he can't engage with his force sensitivity as admitting it would flip his life upside down again, but he kind of got pushed to the side to do the side jobs that the more specialised characters wouldn't be seen dead doing; even deciding to effectively commit suicide to take down the capital ship when a prior story arc in TLJ already told him to fight for what he loves, not what he hates. 

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Yeah yeah, it s all right, I didn't really want to pick on that. 

My point is more that all these things kind of... Feel staged. Like the scene when kylo want to drive over her with his starship. And she jumps up and kills the starship.... All that is OK. But kylo pointed out several times that he didn't want to kill her. And since he is kind of capable in fighting and piloting, he should know that going by a lightsabre wielder is kind of dangerous... So... What did he try to do there...? He could have killed her friends if he wanted to bring her to the dark side... Was he in need of a reason for a new ship? Or, the most likely thing, did he just wanted to produce a realy cool scene for the cinema? 

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8 minutes ago, LordBritish said:

Luke's Lightsaber was Green. I believed she had a blue crystal. Luke threw his away when he renounced his Jedihood or something. That being said, I'm largely thinking back in the OT him having the Green saber, the colour of the blade really doesn't constitute a plothole.

No idea. I went for a slash at that part of the movie and missed the entire landing. Given that the Falcon is literally a super optimised lump of junk that had recently survived a number of blind hyperspace jumps, I'm not really surprised if it just crashed now and again. That and Rey isn't a Mary Sue, by definition she isn't because she has very polarizing character flaws that threatens her ruin. E.g. obsession if we were to use the morality system of F&D. She gave into her weakness pretty much entirely and had Kylo not been distracted I felt she would've fallen to the dark side right then and there. I was just glad to see a bit of action for when high level Jedi really went to town.

The Force is by it's definition life and destiny with the Dark Side existing as it's corruption of that. Rey's "All the Jedi within you" was literally destiny getting behind her and giving her a push just to withstand his attack, with her life as the cost. That and I get the impression that his super charged force lighting wasn't something he could just stop even if he wanted to, either she would cut into him or he would be destroyed. Ironically the new strength the Emperor had gained was literally working against him with the aftershocks of his own attack tearing him to pieces.  Now, I mean I'm not exactly happy about that scene myself but whatever, star wars is a fairly high fantasy setting by it's very nature and considering the absolute pigs dinner they made out of the "trilogy", it was ok popcorn sweeter.

My main real complaint is that I honestly don't think those writers know what to do with Finn, who was slapped by the force so hard he developed Force Sensitivity, after spending an entire movie without it (TLJ). I mean, I think the actor's great and the subtext behind why he can't engage with his force sensitivity as admitting it would flip his life upside down again, but he kind of got pushed to the side to do the side jobs that the more specialised characters wouldn't be seen dead doing; even deciding to effectively commit suicide to take down the capital ship when a prior story arc in TLJ already told him to fight for what he loves, not what he hates. 

Thank you, these are all OK answers, but... It is still kind of lazy writing. If I look at how Vader turned against his emperor it felt... Right somehow, and there was a long arc working towards that... The ending here was pretty Harry Potter like... U got ur *** kicked and than some magic happens u stand up and defeat the evil with ur new superpower. 

Thinking about this, wouldn't it have been more plausible if Kylo would have done this? He is in a line of jedi, had more jedi training, and had a real redemption arc, while Rey just had a peptalk with Luke🤔  

But yeah... I feel like it is a bit pointless to discuss all that, the characters are all trapped in the overall bad story. In the end everything that happens is " the bad guy isn't dead u have to kill him again" and that is a very weak story compare to the "we overthrough a government, destroy all enemies and push the galaxy into darkness" of the first trilogy, and the "we never give up hope and fight against all odds, and we know there is good even in the worst guy" of the second one 

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18 minutes ago, Seguleh said:

Yeah yeah, it s all right, I didn't really want to pick on that. 

My point is more that all these things kind of... Feel staged. Like the scene when kylo want to drive over her with his starship. And she jumps up and kills the starship.... All that is OK. But kylo pointed out several times that he didn't want to kill her. And since he is kind of capable in fighting and piloting, he should know that going by a lightsabre wielder is kind of dangerous... So... What did he try to do there...? He could have killed her friends if he wanted to bring her to the dark side... Was he in need of a reason for a new ship? Or, the most likely thing, did he just wanted to produce a realy cool scene for the cinema? 

Funnily enough I questioned that scene with the Tie Fighter first, then I really thought about it. He always wanted to have that tug of war with her because he knew either her or her friends would have the dagger. Incidentally, the Knights of Ren didn't have to try very hard to obtain the Sith dagger so; after getting her attention first asked the spare transport to fly by her knowing her first response would be to stop it from moving, by that point all he had to do was really aggravate her by playing tug of war until her anger got the better of her. Basically that entire situation was staged by him in order to have her acknowledge her darker nature by effectively killing Chewbacca, but to set up that situation.

Basically, he knew the knights of Ren would be able to capture the dagger while he used himself as bait to ensure Rey was only concentrating on him. It was indeed his intention to capture and corrupt her, but in order for her to fall she had to willingly consent to do so. He wanted her agitated and conflicted as he was in the first two movies but he didn't want to be seen as the villain either but rather someone who genuinely wants her by his side. All her harm she inflicted on her friends should be Rey's fault alone; all he wants is for her to help him defeat the Emperor. 

 

So yeah, it seemed strange at first, but given that the two could sense one another's relative positions, Kylo clearly had the superior resources he could afford to waste a ship here and there just to have her undivided attention for a longer term scheme. Kylo seemed to have matured into the role of a proper villain now that he didn't have little things like conflict in his mind.

 

I noticed you made a new post; just atm I've got other stuff to do so I'll check in when I got time. Just there's a lot to say about the modern movies that is lacking; I hated Rogue 1 and loved Solo so I might be a out layer in my opinions. I felt Solo had the perfect ratio of story to action ratio; with ample time to develop tension. I never really felt tension in this movie as it was always moving onto something else; though I feel this same amount of exhaustion in my campaign as I feel my GM is constantly raising the pitch. Probably my favourate moment so far was actually talking a Sith Spirit down and getting it to let go of it's hate so that it could finally rejoin the force. That was satisfying.

 

4 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Unless it was his force sensitivity that made him overcome his trooper indoctrination. 

Ahhh that's true. The force awakens gave him a lot of moments of clarity and even purpose; and they seem to have gone the same route again for this movie; Finn seemed extremely clued into what was going on around him even if he didn't necessarily have the tools to deal with it.

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Maybe someone can clarify something for me.  We see in the early moments of the movie, Kylo discovers the wayfinder and uses it to find Palpatine.  
Then Rey does the leaping lightsaber trick to cut the wing from the Tie Fighter.  To me, that looked like the same Tie and it ended up in pieces.

Skip ahead to Rey and Kylo's lightsaber fight and she steals his Tie Fighter which happens to have the wayfinder in it.  So were these two different Tie Fighters or did Kylo just recover the wayfinder from the crashed Tie before being picked up?

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1 minute ago, Varlie said:

Skip ahead to Rey and Kylo's lightsaber fight and she steals his Tie Fighter which happens to have the wayfinder in it.  So were these two different Tie Fighters or did Kylo just recover the wayfinder from the crashed Tie before being picked up?

Both are plausible explanations.

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Uh,I just wondered, are there any new starships in this movie? Except the stardestroyerdeathstarthingsthatcantshootsomeships

And another question: why did the general scream "use the ion canons" when the fleet was attacked? That confused me so hard in the cinema 

 

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3 minutes ago, Seguleh said:

Uh,I just wondered, are there any new starships in this movie? Except the stardestroyerdeathstarthingsthatcantshootsomeships

And another question: why did the general scream "use the ion canons" when the fleet was attacked? That confused me so hard in the cinema 

 

I took this to mean. "Don't use the karkin' death star guns. These ships are too nimble for that sort of thing".

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21 minutes ago, Varlie said:

Maybe someone can clarify something for me.  We see in the early moments of the movie, Kylo discovers the wayfinder and uses it to find Palpatine.  
Then Rey does the leaping lightsaber trick to cut the wing from the Tie Fighter.  To me, that looked like the same Tie and it ended up in pieces.

Skip ahead to Rey and Kylo's lightsaber fight and she steals his Tie Fighter which happens to have the wayfinder in it.  So were these two different Tie Fighters or did Kylo just recover the wayfinder from the crashed Tie before being picked up?

Probably that. Alternatively he might have used a sacrificial Tie to come at Rey with. Either way, he probably planned to take Rey with him directly to the Emperor after their confrontation on the Death Star, so it made sense that he would've had it on him then and kept it hidden away any other time in his ships (given the backstabbing nature of the people he ruled; a reasonable precaution). Given he's travelled the route before, he could probably figure out how to get there without it later on.

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32 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

My take on the ion cannons is that they didn't want to risk damaging each other all that much. A couple stray turbolaser shots will do a ton more damage to an ISD than a couple stray ion cannon shots. I was disappointed that the "ion cannons" were the same color as the turbolasers.

Despite what video games have shown us, the Hoth ion cannon had the same sort of red effect as other “good guy” large-scale weapons that we’ve seen on screen. The blue “electric sizzle” after effect, in turn, prompted video game designers to give ion blasts a blue color, likely to allow the player to quickly make a visual distinction between the types of weapons in use.

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Just now, Nytwyng said:

Despite what video games have shown us, the Hoth ion cannon had the same sort of red effect as other “good guy” large-scale weapons that we’ve seen on screen. The blue “electric sizzle” after effect, in turn, prompted video game designers to give ion blasts a blue color, likely to allow the player to quickly make a visual distinction between the types of weapons in use.

Okay. It looked a little different to me, having more of a green aura around the red center, and it was more of an orb, but I can let that slide. Chalk it up to different ion cannon tech.

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