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Well, he's probably gonna add a melee weapon with suppressive and a couple extra dice, so I expect that's not the route. We'll have to see what else he adds, the shield could just as easily be another command card ability at this stage - considering she doesn't need Dio to pulse scan. 

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It looks like 50 on my screen but doesn't make sense unless K2 is required and since we don't see the back of Cassian's card .... Still at 120 pts the combo may be very good. Then again, this isn't the first time an early release card looks like it says one thing only to say something else later on.

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2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

"Counterpart" requires you to have the unit to be able to add the miniature, not that you are required to add the miniature to a given unit.

R2 can be fielded without C3-P0, I'm proposing that it is possible for a new keyword on ID10 (since Iden's card is fairly full of text) that says ID10 HAS to be included in her unit.  Or they just make ID10 0 points with Counterpart.

Right, I still think there is no case where ID10 is a required upgrade, even if he is zero points. ID-10 is a counterpart with 1 or fewer keywords. I can almost guarantee that. 

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

That’s an argument I’ve heard a lot especially with clones, and it’s really funny. I’ve heard people argue that BARCs cost more because they can get Fire Supported by clones. In other words, players should pay for clones and their ability to FS, but they should also pay that price for FS on the unit that will be Fire Supported. That’s paying twice for the same ability and that’s exactly what you’re suggesting with Jyn.

No. I am saying that Jyn works well on her own, but you absolutely HAVE to look at the list you are including her in. I mean imperials need synergies, but each unit is it's own piece. that is like the point of how they build, where as rebels are a sum of the parts... This isn't new... That's why Leia on her own can't compare to veers, but with the correct units she shines. You are not "paying for her twice", you are gaining more utility by running both units. 

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

but how many Commander/Operative units are range 2 or 3 at best?

Because the game has 6 ranges and there will be commanders and ops at all of them eventually... I think you are focusing on the wrong things. How many heroes have range 4? 1. So lets just say that is OP because there is no counter hero. No, we say "oh, Bossk is a bounty hunter with a sniper rifle, he should be able to shoot long range." Iden and Cassian are fine for range, although it might change just for continuity anyway (imo).

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

2 auto crits? I’m not sure what kind of dice you’re using, but that seems unlikely to me.

I use math, not dice. It is very likely considering there are many ways to hit crits. a. Natties b. 2 hits marksman into crits c. using aim tokens to reroll blanks into hits and using aim tokens to turn those hits into crits.

 

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

So because Cassian can get 1 aim by moving (instead of just taking an aim) that makes him OP. Also if you’re again talking about synergies which means abilities should be paid for twice. What about Veers, he adds aims to snipers lots. By your estimation Scout snipers should also have the cost added to them. You can’t have it both ways. Perhaps getting Gunslinger on his 1 pip is the cause of getting Cumbersome, but that means he’s getting that nerf when he’s not playing that command card as well. There are better ways to limit his 1 pip. Maybe say he can’t use a High Velocity weapon with gunslinger, problem solved and every other round isn’t nerfed. I will grant you it might be his low point cost that also contributed to the Cumbersome, but we still have to wait for confirmation on that total.

ok, so I explained it before, but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Moving, gaining 2 aims and attacking with super consistent dice leads to crits. crits= equivalent sharpshooter. Comparing them to snipers as you keep doing means they "should" have ss1. ss1 is 1 crit. this would be expected from cassian standing still and aim shooting. The same can be said for iden. The trouble comes in when you are hitting a unit for 2 crits and even with avg red dice, they are taking 2, due to pierce. This is overpowered when you aim at a unit that relies on armor and red dice saves to protect it... like a tank or even an ATST (white with surge). idk if you know, but 2/8 (tank) is 1/4 or 25% of the total health of the vehicle.

As for your bit on snipers, aims on them do not translate into crits. that is the difference. maximum damage from them is 2, but that is normally a unit in light or no cover unless you are Teknofobia. Multiple aims on snipers are normally a waste because their damage is consistent and reliable at 1 or 0. wasting aims into snipers loses efficiency. This is all just math that makes sense when you look at it. I believe if you go to the Fifth Trooper you can find the math there. 

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

 I will say Rebels need more strong units and if they want to add Cassian at 50 points, I also think it’s a mistake, because the changes that need to be made to Rebels, need to be made more across the entire faction, not just by creating new super units. Then if you don’t take a super unit, you’re not competitive. No, they need to make every unit competitive to play in all factions. There should never be a dud unit.

Woah. Lets start with the bottom and work our way to the top. 1. There is no meta and ever unit is useable. I will stand by this statement forever. (or until you move into range 2) It is all about the person running the list. I don't care the some people think that some units are unplayable, because truth is that every unit in this game is extremely playable, some just easier to play with and more popular. So there is no dud units. If there is, I challenge you to a TTS match where I will use a list with said dud units and win. Cassian isn't necessarily a "super unit" We haven't even seen everything in the pack. Do I think he is strong? sure, so far so good, but he has no utility with any other units and seems like a Han. If you know Han, you will know that he doesn't see competitive play much because many strong players ignore him. Do I think Han is bad? no, but I see his strengths and they don't really fit with most of rebel's overall strategies. 

 

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

All I can do right now is go by what we see, and for now Jyn and Iden are very comparable (with the exception of having a sniper rifle). The rest, yeah, you may be right, but again having a sniper rifle will mean that round 1 Iden can attack. Jyn can attack round 1 as well with use of Infiltrate, but she will also get shot back at. Infinite range should never be on a unit’s weapon. If you don’t agree, then we should again, agree to disagree.

fine.

 

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Sorry, I’m not following you on this one. If you’re saying it’s 115 points, it’s not. Iden is 100 points, the sniper rifle is an added 15 and that’s hella cheap, but I may have over reacted to the price since I think giving an infinite range weapon (again) is a bad idea. I was thinking snipers pay 28, but 20 of that is for the mini and 8 is for the weapon (I guess - at least since the last points change), but I think the infinite range weapon should never have been re-added to the game and because of that the price should be impossibly high. The weapon should be range 5 max, which is still bad on that unit, but not very unbalanced like infinite range

I agree that infinite range is strong, but it not unbalanced. if you spend 120-130 on Iden, I am fine with you chipping away for 2 a round vs spending 70 more points to grab a vader and smack for 6+ a round as well as utility like force push. right now, Iden and Cassian have nothing that make them broken except for maybe the choose your commander thing, which isnt confirmed yet. I believe we need to see the rest of the cards and analzye what units work best with them to really say if it is broken. As I mentioned earlier (last post), I specifically need to math out the efficiency of mortar + iden to get more than 2 crits a round, which might be over powered.

 

2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

I’m sorry but are you really complaining about Cassian maybe getting two aims in a turn and maybe rolling 2 crits in the current meta with Shores/Mortars/Comms Relay?

are you asking me if I am complaining about a potential meta busting unit? I don't mind change nor do I think that shore+mortar+relay is broken, far from it. Is it strong? yes. Are tauntauns strong? is 13 activation rebels a strong list? yes. Is Krennic shores good? yes. 

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Is that Blast on Iden's 2 pip giving her access to another one-time weapon? Looks like she'll have a range of weapons to choose from. Loadout seems to benefit her more than Cassian as she can choose between the sniper rifle or TL-50 repeater. Hunter will also be nice with that Marksman ability. 

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2 minutes ago, Weikel said:

Is that Blast on Iden's 2 pip giving her access to another one-time weapon? Looks like she'll have a range of weapons to choose from. Loadout seems to benefit her more than Cassian as she can choose between the sniper rifle or TL-50 repeater. Hunter will also be nice with that Marksman ability. 

Looks like it to me! As far as the Loadout bit, Cassian could just swap his reconfigured weapon for the other version, most likely. I agree with hunter being good. aims to turn hits into crits can't be bad!

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10 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

R2 can be fielded without C3-P0, I'm proposing that it is possible for a new keyword on ID10 (since Iden's card is fairly full of text) that says ID10 HAS to be included in her unit.  Or they just make ID10 0 points with Counterpart.

That has nearly 0% of chance of being the case. At 0 points, why wouldn't you field ID10? And if it was an auto-include, due to 0pts or being forced, then why have 2 cards? They'd just make Versio and ID10 a unit, and share a single card.

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1 hour ago, CyberClaw said:

That has nearly 0% of chance of being the case. At 0 points, why wouldn't you field ID10? And if it was an auto-include, due to 0pts or being forced, then why have 2 cards? They'd just make Versio and ID10 a unit, and share a single card.

Too much text to fit on a single card maybe?

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15 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

Rebels are terrorists, end of discussion.

The Empire is an oppressive government created by undemocratic means, end of discussion.

Are the rebels using violence with the intent of creating fear to change policy? No they are not. This is not my crazy definition.

noun
noun: terrorism
  1. the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Words have meaning. They aren't just synonyms for good or bad. Terrorism is bad. Total war is bad. But that doesn't make them the same thing. Terrorism is a tactic of creating fear to get things done, usually because you lack the resources and avenues for war or politics. But not always! The Galactic "Fear Will Keep The Local Systems In Line" Empire had lots of political and military resources. Total war is not terrorism, just as a bayonet charge is not volley fire, even though all four are bad news for those involved.

Alderaan was in Tarkin's own words not "a military target". It was being destroyed because it was high profile enough to spread lots of fear around. Y'know. Terrorism.

I can't think of an example from the movies of rebels destroying something  or hurting people so that the Empire will be intimidated into changing policies, but maybe someone else can. @Steck638 can like it twice now I guess?

 

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Quote:

noun: terrorism
  1. the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims
     

That is what the Rebels also do in the Star Wars Universe.

What the empire does is not unlawful (once they established their law in case of occupied planets) .

Edited by Nurgle23
I hate posting on my phone

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3 hours ago, CyberClaw said:

That has nearly 0% of chance of being the case. At 0 points, why wouldn't you field ID10? And if it was an auto-include, due to 0pts or being forced, then why have 2 cards? They'd just make Versio and ID10 a unit, and share a single card.

The entire point was ID10 is an auto-include to make up for Iden being "over costed" at 180.

With a single card both models would share a health value, so ID10 couldn't have a health of 1, ID10 would have to be the first model removed rather than choosing when it is defeated as Counterpart allows (or add another new rule), and ID10 would be able to use Iden's weapons and vice versa without more special rules. "Forcing" people to take ID10 by building his cost into Iden's unit, then making him a 0 point Counterpart (or giving him a special rule requiring him to be taken as part of Iden's unit in list building) is cleaner, since you need at most 1 new special rule (the forced include) rather than 4 to get the same effects as Counterpart has innately.

Edit: I know it's unlikely, but it would be an interesting design.

Edited by Caimheul1313

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Well, little late to the party, but I'll just say that i'm happy that the GCW guys got another set of units.  I personally have no interest in them, but it looks like people on here will enjoy them.  That said, I hope this is the last GCW release for a while.  CW factions still need units, and its a shame they're wasting time with paint sets and GCW-only terrain pieces.

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9 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Well, little late to the party, but I'll just say that i'm happy that the GCW guys got another set of units.  I personally have no interest in them, but it looks like people on here will enjoy them.  That said, I hope this is the last GCW release for a while.  CW factions still need units, and its a shame they're wasting time with paint sets and GCW-only terrain pieces.

I am pretty happy with these releases, but I do agree CW needs more of the focus to get them caught up.

I am personally hoping for SF announcements followed by “here’s our commander + operative two packs for CW.” Based on the comment from ffg that they’re doing releases based on a theme (mechanic wise), it would not surprise me to learn our next CW units besides some basic SF to fill out slots will be Cad Bane + his droid as a counterpart, and Anakin and Ahsoka as commander + operative similar to how it appears K2 is a separate unit that is not a counterpart (perhaps with team work).

Now that we’ve seen it won’t necessarily be Strictly counterparts, I’d be really into an Anakin/Ahsoka box with Ahsoka operative getting teamwork: Anakin.

As for terrain? Sure the bunker is GCW specific but the pod is timeless - it came off a republic era ship so I could see it happening in CW as well. Also, the vital assets is clearly meant more for CW era even if it’s usable by both based on the hostage minis.

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15 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

As for terrain? Sure the bunker is GCW specific but the pod is timeless - it came off a republic era ship so I could see it happening in CW as well. Also, the vital assets is clearly meant more for CW era even if it’s usable by both based on the hostage minis.

The Bunker was what I was referring to, though I can't say I'm particularly pleased with the escape pod either.  Still debating whether or not I'll bother picking it up.  And yes, Vital Assets is good, but it's still a long way from what the CW factions need. (more units)

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33 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

The Bunker was what I was referring to, though I can't say I'm particularly pleased with the escape pod either.  Still debating whether or not I'll bother picking it up.  And yes, Vital Assets is good, but it's still a long way from what the CW factions need. (more units)

I used to say “nah” to the pod, but there’s something about the droid shenanigans that I can’t quite shake. Maybe I’ll buy it on a sale? It helps that there’s scenarios to play beyond standard play though.

I hear you about the need for units. I don’t know where they are beyond the ones we’ve heard about. I’m cautiously hoping the next news is the CW commander+friend packs, as well as an SF or other support option.

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40 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Still debating whether or not I'll bother picking it up. 

😳 R2 - D2 is exactly what clones want. Things clones want: Cheap, efficient, free actions, big dice pools. R2 has the ability to give you all of these. Combine that with a 15 point upgrade to give tokens and you have the best unit possible for clones. 

 

I would also like to point out that ID-10 will likely be 10 or less points because he only has 1 hp. I also think that means he will have one or no abilities because it would be weird to stack him full of abilities only for him to get popped in one shot.

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51 minutes ago, Cleto0 said:

I would also like to point out that ID-10 will likely be 10 or less points because he only has 1 hp. I also think that means he will have one or no abilities because it would be weird to stack him full of abilities only for him to get popped in one shot.

But with Counterpart you choose when ID10 takes that one shot. ID10 doesn't have to take the first wound Iden's unit receives due to the way Counterpart works. 

EDIT: I expect ID10 will at least have Shielded 1, in addition to whatever weapon fits this quote from the article: "While its range may be limited, this seeker droid can also make attacks of its own, sometimes even incapacitating an entire enemy unit."

Edited by Caimheul1313

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2 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

I can't think of an example from the movies of rebels destroying something  or hurting people so that the Empire will be intimidated into changing policies, but maybe someone else can.

I'm pretty sure Cassian tell Jyn a bout his multiple assassinations and sabotage missions. It might not be definitive terrorism, but they clearly are not the good guys.

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1 hour ago, Cleto0 said:

I would also like to point out that ID-10 will likely be 10 or less points because he only has 1 hp. I also think that means he will have one or no abilities because it would be weird to stack him full of abilities only for him to get popped in one shot.

He's at least going to add a Comms slot to Iden. The box comes with 2 Comms upgrade cards but she currently has no Comms slot.

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17 hours ago, Tirion said:

yeah she is only offensively one of the strongest rebel ranged characters in the game

I always laugh when someone mentions she is offensively one of the strongest Rebel ranged in the game (technically kinda true).  That storm trooper squad that you can kill in 3 to 4 rounds at range 3 is super scared of her offensive ability.  

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3 hours ago, Weikel said:

He's at least going to add a Comms slot to Iden. The box comes with 2 Comms upgrade cards but she currently has no Comms slot.

or it is that very wordy gear upgrade... c3po doesn't add any upgrades, so I doubt that counterparts add slots. 

 

4 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

But with Counterpart you choose when ID10 takes that one shot. ID10 doesn't have to take the first wound Iden's unit receives due to the way Counterpart works. 

true, so it will have shielded and a gun with immobilize? That is really solid. 

2 hours ago, Uetur said:

I always laugh when someone mentions she is offensively one of the strongest Rebel ranged in the game (technically kinda true).  That storm trooper squad that you can kill in 3 to 4 rounds at range 3 is super scared of her offensive ability.  

She isn't a saber wielder, but her main focus isn't on attacks either, so keeping that in mind she is pretty good. Especially with the points decrease.

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The counterpart card has space for upgrades, 3PO probably doesn't add any because R2 already has comms. It would be thematically appropriate to include the comms upgrade with a droid. 

EDIT: Actually, didn't you yourself dig up that the counterpart can have different subtype just so it can equip upgrades? That would be all the reason for Dio to have a comms slot, so it could equip some of the droid only tech. 

Edited by UnitOmega

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6 hours ago, Nurgle23 said:

Quote:

noun: terrorism
  1. the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims
     

That is what the Rebels also do in the Star Wars Universe.

What the empire does is not unlawful (once they established their law in case of occupied planets) .

I am unfamiliar with a movie example of rebel use of violence and intimidation that is intended to get someone else to change a policy. 1) use violence 2) calculated to create fear, 3) hoping the scared people change their behavior. That is terrorism. You could argue that the rebel military is unlawful violence, but not all unlawful violence is terrorism.  The engagement at Lexington & Concord wasn't terrorism but it was unlawful violence. Whereas the Boston Tea Party was arguably terrorism.

Edit: I'm further unaware of rebel actions in the films that made an especial target of civilians. Non-combatants who work in armed military installations aren't the same thing as civilians. The above listed set of actions is also exactly what Tarkin described the destruction of Alderaan as. Ie,  "1) If we blow up a planet, 2) that is not remote like Dantooine, everyone will be afraid and 3) do what we say without a senate".

Edited by TauntaunScout

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