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Ace_of_Spades

Balance a custom hero Nightsister

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Hello all!

I would like to ask help for balance this hero i made.

The main concept was a hero who use the dark side and still fit in the rebel mission.

 

The concept was ready before the Fallen Order and i am proud of it

:)

A survivor Nightsister was an obvious choice.

"The enemy of my enemy is my ally. At least for now and i shiver every time she goes with us on a mission."  (Jyn Odan)

So here it is what i came up with (after several feedbacks and help):

 

saJYx34.pngg5b2jRi.png

rwoJu1N.pngtprqK2b.pngRTdLZ2e.pngeYbDMtX.pngRf1TjCL.pngNGjN3IJ.pngpIlEoXh.pngs1CgVKd.pngBTQFfXN.png

 

Miniature (not yet printed):

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4052226

I need help of the community to balance her and obvious i would like to ask @a1bert as well to help where my wording is sloppy if you have time.

Edit: Thank you @a1bert , @Tvboy , @Spidey NZ and @ricope for the high quality feedbacks

1 more thing i must mention.

@Norgrath Nightsister Huntress idea has a major influence on this hereo

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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Binds of Ichor: Currently you can test as many times as you want, thus affect any number of figures. ("Exhaust during your activation to test <insight>. If you pass, choose a hostile figure within 4 spaces to become Weakened.")

General style comment: Abilities should be of the form: Cost/timing optional cost to do X. Also be wary of splitting abilities into separate compound sentences, because sometimes they may be considered to be different abilities. So, I would use "Exhaust during your activation to X."

Mist of Ichor: Exhaust during your activation to become hidden.
2 <strain>: Exhaust during your activation for you and an adjacent friendly figure to become hidden.

Vicious Motivation: Exhaust during your activation to choose a friendly figure within 3 spaces. That figure suffers 1 <strain>, then gains 3 movement points. ("That figure" ties the second sentence to the first. See similar rewrite to Enchant of Anger.)

Animal Bond has "use" with a timing that happens only once per activation, so it can be triggered only once per activation. FFG tends to use "X" though when an ability needs to remember a value from one part to another. "Turning a figure to friendly" isn't defined, and "turn" is not a game term either. Also, making a figure friendly would not make it non-hostile. But we have some rules about imperial figures becoming allies, thanks to the app. Maybe..

Animal Bond: At the start of your activation, you may suffer <strain> equal to half (rounded up) of the figure cost of a hostile unmounted creature of your choice. If you do, that figure becomes an ally for its activation this round.

Massage it a bit more to make more fluent.

Dark Heal: Relocate could be "distribute", which is defined by the rules (thanks to power tokens). Also, spelling..

----

Novice Energy Bow: blue+blue feels pretty swingy without a reroll, but I haven't checked any damage calculator.

Lightwhip: I'm not a fan of Pierce 3 in any form. It takes all agency from the defender. Cleave 3 is missing the <damage> symbol. The combination of the three abilities is probably overpowered, especially when the weapon can take two modifications.

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Thank you @a1bert!

For the wording and for the balance suggestions as well!

About the lightwhip: it is a kind of lightsaber and i did not find one without the pierce 3 so it looks like an unspoken rule to me.
But it  is owerpowered yes. So i reduced the number of possibile modifications and the cleave dmg. Still not sure it is enough. I dont want to weaken it too much either

On the bow i totaly agree.

Updated cards in first post

 

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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Yeah, Pierce 3 is associated with lightsabers, but my critique still stands. I don't remember what the IA team thought, but we were stuck with it.

"dye" is color you use on hair or cloth. "die / dice" are the things you roll.. ;)

Binds of Ichor has an extra " at the end. Prey on the Weak: "1 or more" is plural, so "conditions" should be plural.

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Vicious Motivation: 3MP is almost equivalent to a free-move. I know Fenn has his 1xp Tactical Movement but imo that card should have been a 2xp all along, so I'd change Vicious Motivation to just say gain 2 MP (but now without the strain cost)

Nightsister Initiate: +1 to Endurance or Speed is usually reserved for the 4xp class cards, giving +1 to Endurance for 2xp is way too good, I'd swap it out perhaps for +HP. I think +2HP is a fair trade as the 2nd part combos nicely with the passive ability (Prey on the Weak)

Animal bond: what's an "unmounted creature"? 

Dark Heal: I didn't really understand 100% so I'm just looking to clarify, it's a damage re-distribution? so in theory suppose you roll 3dmg on red and 2dmg on yellow, you could remove 5dmg from heroes and put them on Vader? with an expected roll of 3-4dmg that's even better than a straight-up grenade (grenade doesn't let you remove dmg from heroes)

Light Whip: I would remove the Reach and nerf the ~:Cleave 2 and ~: +2dmg to ~:Cleave 1 and ~: +1dmg respectively

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51 minutes ago, ricope said:

Vicious Motivation: 3MP is almost equivalent to a free-move. I know Fenn has his 1xp Tactical Movement but imo that card should have been a 2xp all along, so I'd change Vicious Motivation to just say gain 2 MP (but now without the strain cost)

2MP is fair. Thanks for the suggestion. Yes Tactical movement was the origin with the darkside twist.

51 minutes ago, ricope said:

Nightsister Initiate: +1 to Endurance or Speed is usually reserved for the 4xp class cards, giving +1 to Endurance for 2xp is way too good, I'd swap it out perhaps for +HP. I think +2HP is a fair trade as the 2nd part combos nicely with the passive ability (Prey on the Weak)

+1 Endurance is a must if She ants to control a Rancor for one turn. That is realy nightsisterish move so i am stick with it. But i did not want to give it to her from the start. So it is a cheep card for big reward  but in sinergy i think keep it in that way. 2xp for Initiate and 3 xp for animal bond is a quite balanced price for one hit from a rancor. Still you are right its a strong card for the cost.

 

51 minutes ago, ricope said:

Animal bond: what's an "unmounted creature"?

Dewback Raider, Cpt Terro, and Bantha Raider. They got the creature trait but i think that should be unthematic if the Nigntsister was able to control them for one turn.

51 minutes ago, ricope said:

Dark Heal: I didn't really understand 100% so I'm just looking to clarify, it's a damage re-distribution? so in theory suppose you roll 3dmg on red and 2dmg on yellow, you could remove 5dmg from heroes and put them on Vader? with an expected roll of 3-4dmg that's even better than a straight-up grenade (grenade doesn't let you remove dmg from heroes)

Exactly. But if your teammates saw what you did they all suffer strain. Fear of the darkside. maybe the cost should be 2 strain.

51 minutes ago, ricope said:

Light Whip: I would remove the Reach and nerf the ~:Cleave 2 and ~: +2dmg to ~:Cleave 1 and ~: +1dmg respectively

Reach for a whip is thematic like the mandalorian whip for Shyla so i think that trait canot nerfed.

She usualy will get 1 surge for hidden.

1 from yellow die

1 more if she use balanced hilt or focused

So yeah i feel its strong. maybe a ~~2dmg, ~cleave1?

 

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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1 hour ago, Ace_of_Spades said:

+1 Endurance is a must if She ants to control a Rancor for one turn

Then specifically say it's for Rancor only: "ability to control Rancor" is very different than "+1 Endurance" because the latter has a ton of other side effects/implications (ex. can now strain-move more, are better with items that costs strains like DT-12 Heavy Blaster Pistol or E-11D or Mandalorian Helmet)

1 hour ago, Ace_of_Spades said:

Dewback Raider, Cpt Terro, and Bantha Raider. They got the creature trait but i think that should be unthematic if the Nigntsister was able to control them for one turn.

 I would be very specific on "unmounted creature", so she is able to control Loth-cats, Nexus, Wampa too?

 

1 hour ago, Ace_of_Spades said:

Exactly. But if your teammates saw what you did they all suffer strain. Fear of the darkside. maybe the cost should be 2 strain.

unmitigated damage is ridiculously strong, and having the potential to put 5dmg (on avg you can expect ~3) while healing allies is beyond broken imo, it is a strictly better version of C22 Frag Grenade yet it's unlimited, most imperial figures are only ~5HP

The Imperial equivalent of it pretty much comes down to "once per round, remove 8 damage from Imperial figures, choose a Rebel hero, that hero suffers 8 dmg" (not outright wound/eliminate someone, but enough to put them as badly damaged), do you see how ridiculous that is?

 

I would remove the red die and just roll the yellow die, that's already strong enough (heal 2dmg + re-allocate 2dmg best case, on avg 1, worst case 0 each round)

Alternatively you could also just say "Action: Choose up to 2 friendly figures within 2 spaces, each of those figures recovers 1 damage. Then, choose up to 2 hostile figures within 2 spaces, each of those figures suffers 1dmg" and remove the heroes-strain penalty. The difference is that now there is a range-limit and you cannot pile all those damage on a single figure anymore

 

 

1 hour ago, Ace_of_Spades said:

Reach for a whip is thematic like the mandalorian whip for Shyla so i think that trait canot nerfed.

She usualy will get 1 surge for hidden.

1 from yellow die

1 more if she use balanced hilt or focused

So yeah i feel its strong. maybe a ~~2dmg, ~cleave1?

if you insist on having Reach (Reach + Cleave is a also very powerful combo because the range has been extended from 3x3 to 5x5) and Pierce 3 then I would perhaps make the Pierce conditional: after all it's not a lightsaber is it?

so it would be

Reach

~: Cleave 1

~: +2dmg

2 strain ~: Pierce 3

 

Lastly, I'm unsure if you're aware of this

 

giving the ability to control Rancor would also break the Jabba's Realm finale mission

Edited by ricope

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I had to sleep one for those suggestions. I am grateful you pointed on some element i did not consider before so i am grateful.

17 hours ago, ricope said:

Then specifically say it's for Rancor only: "ability to control Rancor" is very different than "+1 Endurance" because the latter has a ton of other side effects/implications (ex. can now strain-move more, are better with items that costs strains like DT-12 Heavy Blaster Pistol or E-11D or Mandalorian Helmet

There are several 5 Endurance heroes like Diala, Verena, Mak and Gideon. Vinto can achieve it for 2 xp as well so i think with that cost it is strong but not broken.

17 hours ago, ricope said:

 I would be very specific on "unmounted creature", so she is able to control Loth-cats, Nexus, Wampa too?

Yes. But maybe the cost is too low. Do we have more methods to gain endurancethan the cybernatic arm?

I am considering to rise the strain cost like "Cost/1,5" Also made it once per figure

(if no other method to gain more endurance ill go with Cost/1,75)

17 hours ago, ricope said:

unmitigated damage is ridiculously strong, and having the potential to put 5dmg (on avg you can expect ~3) while healing allies is beyond broken imo, it is a strictly better version of C22 Frag Grenade yet it's unlimited, most imperial figures are only ~5HP

 

The Imperial equivalent of it pretty much comes down to "once per round, remove 8 damage from Imperial figures, choose a Rebel hero, that hero suffers 8 dmg" (not outright wound/eliminate someone, but enough to put them as badly damaged), do you see how ridiculous that is?

 

I would remove the red die and just roll the yellow die, that's already strong enough (heal 2dmg + re-allocate 2dmg best case, on avg 1, worst case 0 each round)

Alternatively you could also just say "Action: Choose up to 2 friendly figures within 2 spaces, each of those figures recovers 1 damage. Then, choose up to 2 hostile figures within 2 spaces, each of those figures suffers 1dmg" and remove the heroes-strain penalty. The difference is that now there is a range-limit and you cannot pile all those damage on a single figure anymore

That was the hardest... I know you are right. But i liked the ability. I chosed the range (4 spaces) to create her a small gap where she can operate without strain but make it strong enaugh to worth to try even if you strain the **** out of your own squad.

It was soo hard but i think i found a common ground.

I created to be an isnight test (i also modified her pool to make it weaker). The usual succes is 2 with this pool with a very little chance to 3. (4 if focussed)  If you are that lucky i think you deserve an insta kill.

17 hours ago, ricope said:

if you insist on having Reach (Reach + Cleave is a also very powerful combo because the range has been extended from 3x3 to 5x5) and Pierce 3 then I would perhaps make the Pierce conditional: after all it's not a lightsaber is it?

so it would be

Reach

~: Cleave 1

~: +2dmg

2 strain ~: Pierce 3

I loved this solution. Thank you!

I updated the cards in the first post

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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22 hours ago, Tvboy said:

In a mission where this hero doesn't have any of her XP cards and only her starting weapon, like Aftermath, she basically doesn't have any abilities. How is she getting her bonus +1 damage or Hidden ability in an Intro mission? 

Excelent question. I think the starting weapon must be changed. I have two thematical ideas:

nI1HYMk.png

vvZHiUu.png

But i think the Shroud of mist support better the bow at the start.

 

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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background forest image, is a bit too blurry.  hurts my eyes type blurry.

 

the mythosaur skull in the top left could use a outline, or darker colour as the silhouette is hard to read.

 

name and some text is starting to blend into the background colour.  they need to be easy to read at a glance.

 

the layout could also be similar to other heroes, so players instantly know where to look for relevant information

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I'm unsure if you noticed, but this hero is extremely flexible with both ranged and melee weapons as the xp cards doesn't really rely on either type (ex. Diala can't use Precise Strike with a gun, same with Gaarkhan, Mak is not Ambush-ing anybody with a sword), this custom hero has none of those drawbacks

 

I think her starting weapon (the bow) is a bit on the weaker side so I'd remove the strain cost for weaken, this would make the passive ability easier to trigger so it'd be

~: Pierce 2

~: Weaken

free reroll

 

for 2xp Vicious Motivation I would either remove the strain cost or change it so that this custom hero takes the strain instead of the targeted ally

Animal bond needs some rewording

typo on Dark Heal, "Then, all friendly figures..."

rest looks fairly solid

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3 hours ago, ricope said:

I'm unsure if you noticed, but this hero is extremely flexible with both ranged and melee weapons as the xp cards doesn't really rely on either type (ex. Diala can't use Precise Strike with a gun, same with Gaarkhan, Mak is not Ambush-ing anybody with a sword), this custom hero has none of those drawbacks

 

I think her starting weapon (the bow) is a bit on the weaker side so I'd remove the strain cost for weaken, this would make the passive ability easier to trigger so it'd be

~: Pierce 2

~: Weaken

free reroll

 

for 2xp Vicious Motivation I would either remove the strain cost or change it so that this custom hero takes the strain instead of the targeted ally

Animal bond needs some rewording

typo on Dark Heal, "Then, all friendly figures..."

rest looks fairly solid

Yes it was intentional. Thats wha she has a bow as starting and a reach traited melee weapon as well.
But she dont have the strong special attacks as the heroes you mentioned. She is flexibile. Support with some dmg output.

On the bow to make it stronger you dont have to say it twice ill modify it today. :)

Vivious motivation. Its thematical for me to make it that way. When she use the dark side those who side with her and actualy good guys stress from it. (I know Mist and Binds dont work that way) On the otther hand yeah 2MP for 1 strain is not the best bargin. But we agried that Tactical movement is overpowered so i think its not too much room for movement here (pun inteded).

I try to fix the rewording and typo mistakes.
Thank you again!


Here is a question i need a bit more help.
Is there any otther way to increase a hero own endurance than his/her own skill cards and the cybernatic arm?

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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7 hours ago, Spidey NZ said:

background forest image, is a bit too blurry.  hurts my eyes type blurry.

 

the mythosaur skull in the top left could use a outline, or darker colour as the silhouette is hard to read.

 

name and some text is starting to blend into the background colour.  they need to be easy to read at a glance.

 

the layout could also be similar to other heroes, so players instantly know where to look for relevant information

The blurry had been solved :)

The míthosaur get darker

 

About the layout.

This was an old layout built by myself.

I love the IA card tool. No but, no if... all the cards were created with that tool but the hero sheet

Print quality is what i tried to improve coz i am a maximalist on that. I am planing to create a higher quality IA like print template for the perfect end product.

But that layout is custom (as this hero) and currently i like the idea to show it that way. Like all Tournament cards. they has the relevant informations with a little swing.

Bigger contrast is something i will consider for sure

 

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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5 hours ago, ArcticJedi said:

Is it intentional to make the background on the wounded side a different background?

Yes. It is Dathomir. Rather used a reddish place than the usual solution

3 hours ago, a1bert said:

Does the number of successes in the insight test of Dark Heal refer to the number of figures or the number of damage tokens to distribute?

What should I say? The Intention was the damage tokens... Tried to fix it.

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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9 hours ago, Ace_of_Spades said:

The blurry had been solved :)

The míthosaur get darker

About the layout.

This was an old layout built by myself.

I love the IA card tool. No but, no if... all the cards were created with that tool but the hero sheet

Print quality is what i tried to improve coz i am a maximalist on that. I am planing to create a higher quality IA like print template for the perfect end product.

But that layout is custom (as this hero) and currently i like the idea to show it that way. Like all Tournament cards. they has the relevant informations with a little swing.

Bigger contrast is something i will consider for sure

 

cool, it can work that way too. great work with your textures.  

Mythosaur now feels a bit too heavy with the outer line work.

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On 12/11/2019 at 10:00 PM, Spidey NZ said:

Mythosaur now feels a bit too heavy with the outer line work.

Repaired ;)

Now i started to work on the miniature (just a remix of an existing one), but if anybody have a thought about this hero don't hesitate :)

Especially of this question:
Is there any other way to increase a hero own endurance than his/her own skill cards and the cybernetic arm?

Edited by Ace_of_Spades

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On 12/14/2019 at 1:18 PM, Ace_of_Spades said:

Is there any other way to increase a hero own endurance than his/her own skill cards and the cybernetic arm?

As far as I know, it's a no. But give others preference if they say something different.

also....
 

6 hours ago, Ace_of_Spades said:

The miniature is ready for the test print.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4052226

nLTwaiT.png

6ytVK5N.png

Its not yet printed! I will try it on an SLA printer soon

THIS IS FREAKING AMAZING!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!!

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