2019 Christmas Upick (mafia)

[Madaghmire 7,274]

57 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I don't see the advantage of revealing the submitted roles so if you want to explain it to me, please go ahead.

Let's say I've got a power town role. I know what it is, and what to do with it. I, of course, have a limited knowledge about the setup but at least my decisions about my moves are honest. If scum are aware about such a role going around they may plan their moves according with that info while, on the other any role scum players share may be a lie, no matter the alignment of the role so either we hope we got that good role we haven't or we expect enemy powers we're not facing.

So if you may elaborate the reasoning behind sharing and it convinces me I will share my owns.

I also warn about breadcrumbs cause it may enlight the guy who submitted but he is not necessarily your team.

You’re misunderstanding. I’m not suggesting sharing the Town roles submitted 

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

15 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

I don't see much downside to revealing which roles we submitted. Scum won't know who has those roles (or which ones exist) so I can't see how they can plan around it. 

I think it's good for scum to know if there is any tracker, even if they don't know who the tracker is.

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

8 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

You’re misunderstanding. I’m not suggesting sharing the Town roles submitted 

Ah, ok, that's different and makes more sense.

I didn't submitted a scum role so can't help there.

[Caldias 2,209]

@PodRacer if a role is submitted as a certain alignment does it necessarily have to stay that certain alignment when you assign them?  

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

10 minutes ago, Caldias said:

@PodRacer if a role is submitted as a certain alignment does it necessarily have to stay that certain alignment when you assign them?  

I guess it will depend on the role itself. Both I submitted had little to none reason to be switched unless you modify the role itself. Utterly useless as town, completely broken as scum.

[Matt3412 486]

6 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I guess it will depend on the role itself. Both I submitted had little to none reason to be switched unless you modify the role itself. Utterly useless as town, completely broken as scum.

##Vote @ovinomanc3r 

Second role was submitted after people got alignment. only reason to submit a broken Scum role second is if you were scum.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,493]

Wow, I didn't realize this day was so short. 5 hours left?

I am against the sharing of roles, being in agreement with the arguments laid out above. Scum do not need to be certain a role exists to change their behavior. Right now they have no idea what is out there, and so must act as if everything might. Should people start revealing the roles they submitted, scum will know what not to expect, and that can be very useful. Additionally, with regard to Mad's wish to only reveal scum roles, the issues there are that 1) scum could be lying and saying roles that don't exist, which is especially an issue if scum as a team got roles they submitted, 2) there may be a decent number of roles that were not submitted with an alignment, and 3) Having a pool of roles narrows our focus. If we assume some are lies, the whole pool is suspect and the exercise is a waste of time. If we assume that all are real, then we may be decieved and tunnel-vision our way to defeat, as has happened in the past. Thus revealing any submitted roles, even only scum ones, hurts town more than scum.

As for whom to vote for, I am leaning Mad or Bertie. Mad because, as he himself said, he's a good shot in the dark, as well as for suggesting sharing submitted roles, Bertie for being fine with revealing even town roles. Both the reads are weak, however.

[EbonHawk 1,243]

45 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

I don't see much downside to revealing which roles we submitted. Scum won't know who has those roles (or which ones exist) so I can't see how they can plan around it. 

I don't see too many downsides, but I also don't see many upsides. How does it help us solve this game?

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

2 minutes ago, Matt3412 said:

##Vote @ovinomanc3r 

Second role was submitted after people got alignment. only reason to submit a broken Scum role second is if you were scum.

That vote makes 0 sense. 

27 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Ah, ok, that's different and makes more sense.

I didn't submitted a scum role so can't help there.

The role would be broken if it is aligned to scum, but I wouldn't submit a broke scum role if I was town. I was town so I didn't, cause the role is not scum aligned. 

Try again, please.

[EbonHawk 1,243]

4 minutes ago, Matt3412 said:

##Vote @ovinomanc3r 

Second role was submitted after people got alignment. only reason to submit a broken Scum role second is if you were scum.

Or he put a town role in first, and then a scum one after? 

Pod did mention he had received a lot of scum roles IRL (no other info obvs) but this is not telling for me on Ovi either way.. 

[EbonHawk 1,243]

5 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Wow, I didn't realize this day was so short. 5 hours left?

I am against the sharing of roles, being in agreement with the arguments laid out above. Scum do not need to be certain a role exists to change their behavior. Right now they have no idea what is out there, and so must act as if everything might. Should people start revealing the roles they submitted, scum will know what not to expect, and that can be very useful. Additionally, with regard to Mad's wish to only reveal scum roles, the issues there are that 1) scum could be lying and saying roles that don't exist, which is especially an issue if scum as a team got roles they submitted, 2) there may be a decent number of roles that were not submitted with an alignment, and 3) Having a pool of roles narrows our focus. If we assume some are lies, the whole pool is suspect and the exercise is a waste of time. If we assume that all are real, then we may be decieved and tunnel-vision our way to defeat, as has happened in the past. Thus revealing any submitted roles, even only scum ones, hurts town more than scum.

As for whom to vote for, I am leaning Mad or Bertie. Mad because, as he himself said, he's a good shot in the dark, as well as for suggesting sharing submitted roles, Bertie for being fine with revealing even town roles. Both the reads are weak, however.

I like this analysis and is what I was hoping for with my vote, #unvote @PodRacer

happy to let some more covno unwind, but will be looking to vote within a couple hours due to short day 

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

1 minute ago, EbonHawk said:

 

Pod did mention he had received a lot of scum roles IRL (no other info obvs) but this is not telling for me on Ovi either way.. 

Seriously? I'm the only town even before starting... Morons! xD

[EbonHawk 1,243]

infact I feel like Matt is jumping on ovi here and looking for a vote so ##vote @Matt3412

[Matt3412 486]

16 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I guess it will depend on the role itself. Both I submitted had little to none reason to be switched unless you modify the role itself. Utterly useless as town, completely broken as scum.

3 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

That vote makes 0 sense. 

The role would be broken if it is aligned to scum, but I wouldn't submit a broke scum role if I was town. I was town so I didn't, cause the role is not scum aligned. 

Try again, please.

I read this statement in 2 ways

1) Broken=Overpowered on the scum roles.                     This leads me to think you are scum

2) Useless as town=why give town bad roles if town.      This leads me to think you are scum

 

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

Actually I'm 100% my second role is not in play. At least, if it is, it's not what I submitted.

[EbonHawk 1,243]

1 minute ago, Matt3412 said:

I read this statement in 2 ways

1) Broken=Overpowered on the scum roles.                     This leads me to think you are scum

2) Useless as town=why give town bad roles if town.      This leads me to think you are scum

 

regardless, role submitted doesn't mean faction you'll get. 

1. I didn't get either of the roles I submitted 

2. I submitted a scum and 3rd party roles

so whatever people submitted ins't going to help us solve this

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

1 minute ago, Matt3412 said:

 

2) Useless as town=why give town bad roles if town.      This leads me to think you are scum

 

Because this is crazy mafia? And it's for fun?

To be honest it isn't utterly useful but it's not helpful or not too much.

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

Because this is crazy mafia? And it's for fun?

To be honest it isn't utterly useful but it's not helpful or not too much.

Useless* sorry.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,493]

28 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Ah, ok, that's different and makes more sense.

I didn't submitted a scum role so can't help there.

 

12 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I guess it will depend on the role itself. Both I submitted had little to none reason to be switched unless you modify the role itself. Utterly useless as town, completely broken as scum.

So, you submitted a role that was uttely useless to town, yet did not submit any scum roles? 

I assume the 'utterly useless, completely broken' refer to two different roles, presumably in the order they were submitted. So either you are scum, this was a Freudian slip, and you were sabatoging town from the start, or the alignments were reversed (the first role was scum specific, and thus useless to town, the other was town specific, and thus broken if the scum got it). Should either of these interpretations be correct, you have submitted a scum role, thus directly contradicting yourself.

5 minutes ago, EbonHawk said:

Or he put a town role in first, and then a scum one after? 

Pod did mention he had received a lot of scum roles IRL (no other info obvs) but this is not telling for me on Ovi either way.. 

I think you mean the other way around?

4 minutes ago, EbonHawk said:

I like this analysis and is what I was hoping for with my vote, #unvote @PodRacer

happy to let some more covno unwind, but will be looking to vote within a couple hours due to short day 

You have to unvote properly. . . 2 ## right?

[EbonHawk 1,243]

1 minute ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I think you mean the other way around?

either or, I don't think looking into who submitted what and when is helpful

1 minute ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

You have to unvote properly. . . 2 ## right?

semantics 

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

2 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

So, you submitted a role that was uttely useless to town, yet did not submit any scum roles? 

Yes.

2 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I assume the 'utterly useless, completely broken' refer to two different roles,

No. It refers to both roles. They help little to town but would be game over to town if scum.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,493]

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Yes.

No. It refers to both roles. They help little to town but would be game over to town if scum.

So you intentionally gave town two roles that were useless?

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

Both roles I submitted I made them with party alignment because of that.

One is 3rd party, one town. Let you guess the order and frame yourselves, role-fishers.

[EbonHawk 1,243]

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

No. It refers to both roles. They help little to town but would be game over to town if scum.

My scum role sent in was also way way OP, **** if you're not creating OP roles is it a U-pick? 

[ovinomanc3r 4,436]

Just now, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

So you intentionally gave town two roles that were useless?

👇

8 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Because this is crazy mafia? And it's for fun?

To be honest it isn't utterly useful but it's not helpful or not too much.