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Boom Owl

Assuming something has to be the absolute best in the game at any given time what is your preference?

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Strategies that are extremely hard and taxing to pull off and require significant flying skill as opposed to list building skill or strength, as the skill ceiling for list building is not high enough to drive differentiation in player skill. Swarms or Aces when arc dodging is hard. (Atm aces isn't quite that difficult) 

If you're going to invest significant time learning it, you should get some reward for that, while making sure the game isn't all about prep time. 

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Can I get a “diversity” option? Or is that kind of what “efficiency” boils down to?

Fortunately, the game is huge in terms of breadth and depth of ships & factions right now. Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future, I’ll probably continue to be stuck in my own (literal) kitchen table micro-meta. But the sheer variety of stuff that’s both available and basically viable makes it fun and rewarding to mix it up and play a big diversity of ships. That in turn helps keep it fresh, even though my pool of potential players are still capped at one buddy and one kid.

(Not that I’m not happy with them! I am! I’m just saying that I also treasure the one night per year that I can actually make it out to league night at the FLGS, and I’d do it more than once per year if I could finagle it!)

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I'm not really sure.

Probably should say "efficiency" since that probably presents the easiest target for nerfs if it gets out of hand; touch the ships by a point or two to make them less efficient, to the point where it's not busted.

But like, I hated quad T-65 Flight Assist Astromech lists in late 1e.  Bah, maybe that was one frustrating Store Champ with 4 out of 4 lists being FAA-based lists (Quad X, Quad FAA/TLT Y-Wings/3X + Saw/Jess+3X or 2X + Y).  A little variation, but not much.

Folks hated the dominance of the Quad Phantom and Rebel Beef meta, and I'd call that efficiency.

17 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Efficiency, if only because Ace mirror metas can become degenerate bid wars more easily than efficiency metas devolve to dice-offs.

Probably true.

However, aces seem like they've started to adapt to smaller bids.  Sense and Passive Sensors have expanded the tools for an ace list with First Player.  Granted, that probably reduces the pool of potential ace lists down to those factions which can easily take Sense.

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3 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Can I get a “diversity” option?

Saaaaaame. But that's basically the antithesis of the poll's purpose I guess; true diversity basically says "all of the above, more or less equally." Still I feel like it's sort of a false dilemma along the lines of "Would you rather be friendless, homeless, or aimless?" I'd rather not have to choose, and I don't think that's horribly unrealistic (still, I voted efficiency).

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

But like, I hated quad T-65 Flight Assist Astromech lists in late 1e.  Bah, maybe that was one frustrating Store Champ with 4 out of 4 lists being FAA-based lists (Quad X, Quad FAA/TLT Y-Wings/3X + Saw/Jess+3X or 2X + Y).  A little variation, but not much.

Quad or 5x? I guess people were flying the named ones again. Somehow I thought it was all just the 5X spam. Regardless I'd certainly take that over anything else that was competitive at the time.

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19 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Quad or 5x? I guess people were flying the named ones again. Somehow I thought it was all just the 5X spam. Regardless I'd certainly take that over anything else that was competitive at the time.

I wasn't one of the people who seem to have scarred Fig for life, but I dabble with the named X-wings in late 1st Edition. They were actually pretty good -- being able to decide whether to do a 3-turn boost and leave, or a 3-tallon and come about with a PS9 Wedge and a PS10 Wes was pretty strong. Never had time to properly figure out if it had real legs or not, but I suspect it would have.

Edited by DR4CO

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3 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

They were actually pretty good -- being able to decide whether to do a 3-turn boost and leave, or a 3-tallon and come about with a PS9 Wedge and a PS10 Wes was pretty strong.

Technically you'd have to decide "At the beginning of the activation phase" as that was the timing on the old S-Foils card. No PS9 T-Roll for you!

One more reminder how much better 2.0 is.

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5 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Technically you'd have to decide "At the beginning of the activation phase" as that was the timing on the old S-Foils card. No PS9 T-Roll for you!

One more reminder how much better 2.0 is.

Apologies -- I wasn't remembering the card quite right. Been a little while. 😂

You're right, you had to decide on the boost at the beginning of the activation phase. But you got to decide whether you wanted to T-Roll or turn on command. So you could dial in the turn, and if it was safe go for the T-Roll, if it wasn't safe just do the regular turn and Focus for defence or barrel roll out of range. It was kinda gross.

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Out of those choices? Bombs maybe? There are so reigned in now in 2nd Edition, and are incredibly more deal-withable now that perfect information bombs (with the exception of Genius and Edon Kappehl) don't exist. I could actually deal with a bomb heavy meta, where as Aces get into a bid war situation. Turrets tend to just be a jousty list with some element of efficiency or control (see Dreadloks and Yions).

And efficiency, whoo boy... efficiency seems the worst to me as Quad Phantoms, Jedi (just in general), Rebel Beef, Seer Swarm, Triple Torp Boats, Stress Bunker are all hyper efficient lists, and all of them are just no fun. When efficiency is king, the meta is unhappy.

Give me diversity any day.

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Yeah, I feel like ace play being too good has counter play (as long as it's not 1.0 phantom level broken). Efficiency can quickly become a dice off, imo.

Those who know me know I love efficiency lists, but I like them because Aces and squads with low ship count can be surprised by them. Once you go down the efficiency path, I fear only the 2 or 3 most efficient squads see play.

Edited by Parakitor

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52 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

And efficiency, whoo boy... efficiency seems the worst to me as Quad Phantoms, Jedi (just in general), Rebel Beef, Seer Swarm, Triple Torp Boats, Stress Bunker are all hyper efficient lists

But are they "efficiency lists". Jedi scream ace, Stress bunker is control. 

Rebel beef and sear swarm are relatively easily balanced. And the mobile fortressing of quad phantom and UUUU is a problem on its own, not because they are efficiency, imo.

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7 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Quad or 5x? I guess people were flying the named ones again. Somehow I thought it was all just the 5X spam. Regardless I'd certainly take that over anything else that was competitive at the time.

Locally, there was a lot of Wedge + Wes + stuff.  A pair of Crack Shot CAZ, maybe.  Or Saw swapped in for someone.  Like, when Reapers came out, Jam was kinda busted.  Wes got a free, better Jam action after attacking.

I think it's easy to forget that, for a lot of folks, the game of X-Wing can be really different locally.  I don't think we had too big of a problem with NyMiranda or Ghost/Fenn, but we had a bunch of Flight Assist Astromech stuff.  Now, how much it was a problem, and how much it was just that *I* hated it?  {shrug}

6 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Apologies -- I wasn't remembering the card quite right. Been a little while. 😂

You're right, you had to decide on the boost at the beginning of the activation phase. But you got to decide whether you wanted to T-Roll or turn on command. So you could dial in the turn, and if it was safe go for the T-Roll, if it wasn't safe just do the regular turn and Focus for defence or barrel roll out of range. It was kinda gross.

Plus, the ships probably had Flight Assist Astromech, so the choice to hard-out probably could still let you FAA boost or roll, then focus.

FAA was such a broken card. It had some restrictions that kept it from being too out-of-hand, but it was boost and barrel roll for 1 point.

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

But are they "efficiency lists". Jedi scream ace, Stress bunker is control. 

Rebel beef and sear swarm are relatively easily balanced. And the mobile fortressing of quad phantom and UUUU is a problem on its own, not because they are efficiency, imo.

Well, yes. I don't think efficiency is excluded from any of those other types. The types are mixable. Yion was turrets, control, and with a dash of efficiency in the double tapping. Jedi are efficiency aces. Stress Bunker was efficiency, control, and bombs. Quad Phantoms is efficiency and mobile fortressing. 

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Efficiency or bombs.  It's easy to fix efficiency with point adjustments.  1.0 had a counter theme.  Aces are to good here are turrets.  Then turrets are too powerful here are autothrusters.  Ships can tank too much damage here are harpoon missiles.  

 

Dropping bombs in the system phase fixed a lot of their problems and efficient things can be made less efficient.  So those are my preferences if something has to be better.

Control can be too frustrating so it should never be top tier. 

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