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Blail Blerg

How to use Wings for maximum efficiency?

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4 in a wing for me so far. The 'T' Is a good shape/size to use so I can fit around stuff. The cost is about what I'm usually willing to spend on a block like that anyway, even if they weren't in a wing, since it comes up to about 100pts usually. So I can diversify and have three to four 'elements' in my roster. That and since the leader can be killed and break the formation, I try not to over invest in it anyway. Maybe with cheaper ships I'd be more willing to try it, just to save some initial time with like TIE fighters or something.

 

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Quadjumper wings have some of the funkiest possible wing moves. Reverse 1 bank, anyone?

Dalan Oberos with advanced sensors and afterburners however takes the cake for extreme repositioning. Bendy barrel roll into speed 3+ maneuver, into boost, into 90° turn. Imagine being his wingmate when he's like "Follow me!"

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3 hours ago, Gberezowsky said:

Speaking of funky maneuvers, did anyone notice that on a k turn, sloop, or talon roll, the wing mates flip sides. Not sure it means much on average, but it did allow me to get a damaged ship well out of harms way. 

In any case, that’s some serious maneuvering by the wing mate. 

Is that what happened? 

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Okay, so a lot of people seem displeased with the limitation on wingmate actions. For example, wingmates cannot perform the rotate turret action. So on the one hand, wings are too strong because they have increased maneuverability and low-initiative wingmates get the advantage of activating as late as the wing leader. Then on the other hand, people don't like the fact that wingmates have limited actions? Wouldn't that make them even stronger?

I honestly believe that the limit to wingmate actions is more about flavor than balance. I was going to write more, but I don't have a lot of ground to stand on in that statement. Arguments can be made either way.

Edited by Parakitor

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1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

Okay, so a lot of people seem displeased with the limitation on wingmate maneuvers. For example, wingmates cannot perform the rotate turret action. So on the one hand, wings are too strong because they have increased maneuverability and low-initiative wingmates get the advantage of activating as late as the wing leader. Then on the other hand, people don't like the fact that wingmates have limited actions? Wouldn't that make them even stronger?

I honestly believe that the limit to wingmate actions is more about flavor than balance. I was going to write more, but I don't have a lot of ground to stand on in that statement. Arguments can be made either way.

I actually don't mind it. While it does eliminate some builds I was fiddling with, to me it seems the developers found a decent middle ground. Time will tell of course.

Edited by Hiemfire

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7 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

Quadjumper wings have some of the funkiest possible wing moves. Reverse 1 bank, anyone?

Dalan Oberos with advanced sensors and afterburners however takes the cake for extreme repositioning. Bendy barrel roll into speed 3+ maneuver, into boost, into 90° turn. Imagine being his wingmate when he's like "Follow me!"

You'd have to start Dalan with boost though is all. Can you fit the roll first while your wingmen are there in position 2 and 3? Still hilarious.

And the quads leader would have to be able to back up, so you couldn't do it in a full wing of six, or a wing of 4. Unless you lost that position.

4 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Is that what happened? 

Yup. The wingmates positions get assigned at build/setup with the position card. When you move the wing, you place the wing tool, then move the mates to their assigned position relative to the leader, according to the assigned positions. Very twisty.

***********

Back to all. I don't mind it either. Yeah there's some weird things that can get funky with a wing, but there's also other things that they can't do because they're in that wing. I tried a wing of TIE Interceptors the other day for instance, big mistake that was lol.

Edited by ForceSensitive

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1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

You'd have to start Dalan with boost though is all. Can you fit the roll first while your wingmen are there in position 2 and 3? Still hilarious.

Remember, 1 bank bendy barrel rolls. Both forward barrel rolls fit in any formation, if you have an empty spot behind and to the side you can do backward bendy roll in that direction, so if you fly 3 side by side, or 4 in a T-shape, you can do all 4 of his bendy barrel rolls.

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I thought this thread was about maximum efficiency in terms of flight patterns, in which case I suggest abusing the rules for leaving and rejoining a wing. Split the wing up to spread firing arcs/get blocks etc, but keep in close and you can regroup everyone for free at the end of the turn anyway! Hooray!

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22 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

*regroup for a stress. Technically 😅

Why does regrouping cause stress?

Joining
A ship that has split from its wing can join that wing. When a ship joins a wing, the ship is placed back into formation, in its wing position, and becomes a wingmate again. At the end of the End Phase, a split ship can join its wing if the following conditions are met:
• The ship is at range 0–1 of its previous wing leader.
• The ship is not stressed, ionized, tractored, or cloaked.
• A ship can only join its previous wing, which is indicated by the ID card of that wing’s leader.

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17 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

4 in a wing for me so far. The 'T' Is a good shape/size to use so I can fit around stuff. The cost is about what I'm usually willing to spend on a block like that anyway, even if they weren't in a wing, since it comes up to about 100pts usually. So I can diversify and have three to four 'elements' in my roster. That and since the leader can be killed and break the formation, I try not to over invest in it anyway. Maybe with cheaper ships I'd be more willing to try it, just to save some initial time with like TIE fighters or something.

 

The fourth wing member is often a good pick. Forming up directly 'behind' the wing leader means they have the same bullseye arc - meaning it's a lot easier to 'eyeball' their bullseye than with a wingman positioned to left or right, and you can use the wing leader to boost or roll to line up a bullseye attack whilst the wingman still has their action to focus or lock.

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7 hours ago, gadwag said:

Why does regrouping cause stress?

Joining
A ship that has split from its wing can join that wing. When a ship joins a wing, the ship is placed back into formation, in its wing position, and becomes a wingmate again. At the end of the End Phase, a split ship can join its wing if the following conditions are met:
• The ship is at range 0–1 of its previous wing leader.
• The ship is not stressed, ionized, tractored, or cloaked.
• A ship can only join its previous wing, which is indicated by the ID card of that wing’s leader.

 

7 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

@gadwag Huh. The rule reference I think differs from the epic rule book. That's weird. I swear I looked this up just last week. Anyone have the printed rule book handy?

Well, THAT'S a huge omission from the rule reference. In the printed rulebook, there are only two bullet points. The 3rd bullet point we see in the RR is actually a brand new paragraph, and the sentence following bullet three reads, "After joining the wing, the ship is placed back into its formation, it gains one stress token, and its maneuver dial is set aside." (Emphasis mine)

So...which is right?

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HUZZAH! I'M NOT CRAZY! WOOHOO!! Been freaking out about that all night at work lol 😅 

I think the stress should stay, otherwise that's going to lead to some REALLY messed up bonkers stuff. Like technically a wingmate could get a crazy K-turn out of crashing back into it's formation.

Edited by ForceSensitive
Added a lost paragraph

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3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The fourth wing member is often a good pick. Forming up directly 'behind' the wing leader means they have the same bullseye arc - meaning it's a lot easier to 'eyeball' their bullseye than with a wingman positioned to left or right, and you can use the wing leader to boost or roll to line up a bullseye attack whilst the wingman still has their action to focus or lock.

Wait, that would make the 4th position a good spot to put a HLC equipped T-70 or Scyk or B-wing. I hadn't actually thought of that.

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4 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Well, THAT'S a huge omission from the rule reference. In the printed rulebook, there are only two bullet points. The 3rd bullet point we see in the RR is actually a brand new paragraph, and the sentence following bullet three reads, "After joining the wing, the ship is placed back into its formation, it gains one stress token, and its maneuver dial is set aside." (Emphasis mine)

So...which is right?

This tells me the Epic Battle Rules Reference is part of the Rules Reference (page 2 of the EBRR):

"INTRODUCTION
This reference expands upon the Star Wars: X-Wing Rules Reference,
giving players access to all information specific to the Epic game mode.
The Epic game mode introduces scenarios, multiplayer rules, and wings of
ships that fly together. Unlike the Epic Battles rulebook, this reference
addresses complex and unusual gameplay situations."

so the Golden Rules apply (page 2 of the RR), namely the first one which is bolded here:

"GOLDEN RULES
If a rule in this guide contradicts the Rulebook, the rule in this guide takes precedence.
If the ability of a card conflicts with the rules in this guide, the card ability takes precedence.
If a card ability uses the word “cannot,” that effect is absolute and cannot be overridden by other effects.
During an attack or while otherwise resolving an effect involving dice, each die cannot be rerolled more than once."

Edited by Hiemfire

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On 11/29/2019 at 10:20 AM, ForceSensitive said:

V-19 swarm with proton rockets seems like a good wing. Leader angles and rolls the formation, the rest focus and barage. I'd you could get some of those into a huge you could throw some serious hurt out there. A three ship wide formation of bullseye arcs is not going to be easy to dodge at all.

Might make "Odd-Ball" with a Synched Console actually useful. Well, not with P-Rockets but a wing of 6 with other missiles hunting a Huge ship, or maybe Cluster Missiles hunting other Wings.

Edited by NeonWolf

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3 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Wait, that would make the 4th position a good spot to put a HLC equipped T-70 or Scyk or B-wing. I hadn't actually thought of that.

It's why you'd need to apply a bit of thought to who takes what slot.

In a TIE/ln All-Stars wing, for example:

  • "Howlrunner" would probably take the wing leader slot. She has the highest initiative, the biggest 'force multiplier' ability and is generally #1 on your opponent's 'must kill' list so benefits most from the Veteran Wing Leader ability.
  • Marksmanship Seyn Marana/Scourge Skutu really want bullseye arc, so are best set up in the #3 slot directly behind "Howlrunner" for ease of eyeballing bullseye shots.
  • Del Meeko and Iden Versio are great force multipliers but don't need to be in any specific position, so slot #5 or #6 are fine.
  • Mauler Mithel wants to be in range 1, so putting him in slot #2 or #3 makes sense/

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Yes. So any effect along the lines of "after you execute a manouvre" which requires you to be close to another friendly ship will have to cope with wingmen moving after a higher initiative wing leader.

At the same time, you can use this effect in reverse; if you want high initiative protectorates like Fenn Rau to be immune to blocking (or near enough), then put them in a wing led by an I1 zealous recruit; and then you've got Fenn moving first.

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