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Crimsonwarlock

Can M3A Equip Barrage Rockets

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The rules say each ship will have a squad point cost and an upgrade bar that shows how many and which types of upgrades that ship can equip and an effect can move an upgrade to a ship that does not have the matching icon on its upgrade bar. 

Missile-Missile is not a type of upgrade, if it was ships that have Missile-Missile would only be able to equip Missile-Missile upgrades but, this is not the case. 

As far as we know barrage rockets is one upgrade that takes two slots. Per the rules an effect can grant an upgrade to a ship even if it doesn't have the slots. M3-A ability does not grant any slots but grants 1 upgrade of a certain type, thus barrage rockets would be a legal upgrade for it.

We need to check and see if barrage rockets is one or two upgrades. 

If barrage rockets is one upgrade then it's legal or if it is two upgrades then it is not. 

 

Edited by TeamMechKillers
Typo's

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I will point out tho that despite what @theBitterFig states (🙄😜), I do think that BR *IS* a missile upgrade. And the hard point simply states a “missile” upgrade. 

While typically, the system of requiring two missiles works fine, just like Palp requires 2 crew (sorry @theBitterFig, I mean 1 crew-crew 😂), the flat hard point method of giving an “x” upgrade does kinda raise a legitimate question. 

Yes, BR requires two slots but then all other missiles require one slot. The M3A meets neither requirement. The hard point wording is the only measure of what it can equip. 

That being said, OBVIOUSLY, RAI (and I agree RAW too) is not stating this... but still. Doesn’t mean I’m not gonna try to run a M3A BR swarm... 🙌😜😁

Edited by JBFancourt

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6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Well, Barrage Rockets *aren't* a Missile Upgrade.

 

 

 

 

They're a Missile-Missile upgrade.  It's different.

i thought so as well, but when i started writing it up, it didn't make sense (i'm not talking about the force upgrade, mind you). would that mean that captain jonus doesn't grant rerolls for barrage rockets? i mean, you're performing a (missile) (missile) attack, not just a (missile) attack.

well, it does make sense (still not the force upgrade) that the weapon hardpoint ship ability only uses one (missile) symbol and that the barrage upgrade card has two, so you can't equip it. it still gets weird with other ability text, though. i mean, electro proton bomb is a (payload) (modification) upgrade, but it's also a (payload) upgrade and a (modification) upgrade. and bomblet generator is a (payload) (payload) upgrade, but it's still a (payload) upgrade, just follow the squad builder is my solution - and i guess the official recommendation if you're in doubt while list building.

M3-A_GenesisRed.pngBomber_Jonus.png

Barrage_Rockets.png

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Also if you consult the RR under Upgrades, it gives the symbols for all upgrades in the game. There’s only a missile symbol. 
 

Also under generic upgrade points, all categories are listed alphabetically with their type. Diamond Moron Missiles and Barrage are listed alphabetically with missiles. 
 

Same point for Rhymer and Double Edge.  

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Whatever.  Some folks will try to ruin any game they can just for a minuscule edge.

At very least, FFG has a "because I said so" answer, because they don't let you do it.  Done.  We can prattle on pointlessly, figure out FFG's precise reasoning for why we can't, but that's really the end of it.

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12 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Interestingly YASB does not allow it but the LaunchBay Next App does....

This of course is nothing at all official, just interesting seeing how it’s interpreted by others. 

I know you guys like to ignore the official build app and all, but the Official app does NOT allow you to equip Barrage rockets on to the hard-point. Thus making it "official" the ship cannot take it. They also cannot equip Diamond-Boron Missiles (another dual missile slot weapon). 
 

Soo... seems pretty cut and dry the ship can only equip single slot weapons in that hard point. 

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While I appreciate the sentiment @theBitterFig, and agree that rule lawyering is a detrimental to a gaming experience, I would point out that THIS is the place to do it. Not across the table or at a store event.  

Theorizing about rules, meanings, and interpretations is a fun thing to do in forums, myself included. Also acknowledging mishaps in rules writing and construction. 

This is NOT an attack on the game or an individual. As such, if it’s rewarding to some to discuss, good, if some are sitting there 🙄🙄🙄, then no biggie. Just another topic in another forum. Not an issue. 
 

source.gif

Edited by JBFancourt

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1 minute ago, Lyianx said:

I know you guys like to ignore the official build app and all, but the Official app does NOT allow you to equip Barrage rockets on to the hard-point. Thus making it "official" the ship cannot take it. They also cannot equip Diamond-Boron Missiles (another dual missile slot weapon). 
 

Soo... seems pretty cut and dry the ship can only equip single slot weapons in that hard point. 

Yes, or it’s yet another bug that FFG has not been aware of.... 😜

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1 minute ago, JBFancourt said:

While I appreciate the sentiment @theBitterFig, and agree that rule lawyering is a detrimental to a gaming experience, I would point out that THIS is the place to do it. Not across the table or at a store event.  

Theorizing about rules, meanings, and interpretations is a fun thing to do in forums, myself included. Also acknowledging mishaps in rules writing and construction. 
 

This is NOT an attack on the game or an individual. As such, if it’s rewarding to some to discuss, good, if some are sitting there 🙄🙄🙄, then no biggie. Just another topic in another forum. Not an issue. 
 

 

End of the day, though, FFG doesn't let you do it in the app.  Maybe it's a glitch, but they haven't fixed it in like a year, so almost surely not just a bug.

Whatever we want to whinge about on here, FFG doesn't let us do it.

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1 minute ago, JBFancourt said:

Yes, or it’s yet another bug that FFG has not been aware of.... 😜

Even if that's the case (which i dont think it is), its an 'official source' that we have to go by until they change it.

But it so happens that the m3a not being able to take it, seems to fit the intent behind the double slot munitions. That those weapons should only be equip to ships that fit the bomber role, rater than any. It would make as much sense that a m3a could take barrage as much as an A-wing could. 

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3 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Even if that's the case (which i dont think it is), its an 'official source' that we have to go by until they change it.

But it so happens that the m3a not being able to take it, seems to fit the intent behind the double slot munitions. That those weapons should only be equip to ships that fit the bomber role, rater than any. It would make as much sense that a m3a could take barrage as much as an A-wing could. 

Ummmmm.... excuse me, it’s a scum ship..... sooooo, where there’s a will and enough space duct tape there’s a way SIR...

 

GOOD DAY!

giphy.gif

Edited by JBFancourt

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Well, it is stated that the app enforces the official rules for squad building.

I guess they forgot to write this concept of having upgrades with more than one upgrade type sybmbol down, because that is "obviously" the way and has been done forever like this.

I also think hardpoint is poorly worded and should sound more like:

Quote

Your upgrade bar gains 1 [cannon], [torpedo] or [missile] upgrade symbol.

 

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20 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

End of the day, though, FFG doesn't let you do it in the app.  Maybe it's a glitch, but they haven't fixed it in like a year, so almost surely not just a bug.

Whatever we want to whinge about on here, FFG doesn't let us do it.

Fair enough.  Good to know all the Jonus/BR players were cheating then.  I feel retroactively vindicated for like... last November.

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1 hour ago, Singulativ said:

I also think hardpoint is poorly worded and should sound more like:

But, thats what it is. Its (now) referenced in from Huge Ships thats basically a single slot thats designed for multiple weapon types depending on 'mission need'. 

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1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

I know you guys like to ignore the official build app and all, but the Official app does NOT allow you to equip Barrage rockets on to the hard-point. Thus making it "official" the ship cannot take it. They also cannot equip Diamond-Boron Missiles (another dual missile slot weapon). 
 

Soo... seems pretty cut and dry the ship can only equip single slot weapons in that hard point. 

That just means that Jonus is now unable to reroll dice for barrage and diamonde boron attacks. That's crazy! Will have to keep that in mind whenever I want to make a player that still plays Jonus Barrage Spam cry 😂

The Jonus/Hard point argument is very interesting I find because they use the exact same language. Nice find. Personally I would ask FFG for a clarification. I'm pretty sure I have an idea how they want it played, I just don't think they've proof checked their own wording enough... again ...

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1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

But, thats what it is. Its (now) referenced in from Huge Ships thats basically a single slot thats designed for multiple weapon types depending on 'mission need'. 

Not quite, there is a difference between:

Quote

Your can equip 1 [cannon], [torpedo] or [missile] upgrade.

and

Quote

Your upgrade bar gains 1 [cannon], [torpedo] or [missile] upgrade symbol.

because there is no ruling about cards that have more than 1 upgrade symbol:

HLC is a [cannon] upgrade that requires 1 [cannon] symbol on the upgrade bar,

BR is a [missile] upgrade that requires 2 [missile] symbols on the upgrade bar.

But this is nowhere explicitely stated in the rules.

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