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TedW

Playtesting Vonreg's TIE/ba - Initial Impressions

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On 12/25/2019 at 8:57 PM, Stay OT Leader said:

Yeah exactly... it’s ‘ish’ double reposition and it costs you a dice to do it.  He’s a shadow of the arc dodger Soontir is and I genuinely don’t see him worth >50pts.  
 

Lulo and Duchess are low 40s, I see Vonreg high 40s ideally.

Lulo is only 2 red dice, and Rz2 are undercosted compared to their time on target. Duchess has only hull and only 2 green dice. Both are only I5 compared to Vonreg's I6.

 

Compare to Talonbane, both have 3 reds, TC has a significantly worse dial (3 less blue maneuvres, no speed 5 maneuvers, no 3 hard), no double reposition at all, no boost, no evade. Pilot abilities are somewhat comparable, TC slightly better there (TC gets one more green die at range 3 (but is a lot slower and thus has problems to get there or to dive from range 3 to 1), having 5 red at range one is relatively close to having 4 in bullseye and taking away 1 enemy die, but Tc is more likely to die at range 1) Talonbane has one less Ini, has 3hull more, 1 shield less, but especially only 2 green dice. 

Talonbane costs 50(!)

Compare to Fenn Rau in the Fang. Hull instead of shield (worse), no evade (apart from Concordia), worse dial (3 less blues), no double reposition, linked red focus. Costs 68(!)

Vonreg should of course be over 50. Most of the I6s in this game are undercosted, and Fenn is 18pts more than 50. High 40s for Vonreg is pure powercreep.

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33 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Lulo is only 2 red dice, and Rz2 are undercosted compared to their time on target. Duchess has only hull and only 2 green dice. Both are only I5 compared to Vonreg's I6.

Technically, Vonreg is an Initiative 6 version of Lulo.

He trades a dice for an action, like Lulo and needs to perform greens when does it.

More than 55 is much for this one. 

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11 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:

Technically, Vonreg is an Initiative 6 version of Lulo.

He trades a dice for an action, like Lulo and needs to perform greens when does it.

More than 55 is much for this one. 

Except he doesn't. If you trade for an attack die, you'll probably still attack, and then remove your deplete. If you trade for a defense die, you can still get attacked once, with your tokens up at range 3, and lose the strain, then still do a red maneuver. It's also an ability that would normally be hard to use, because you have to guess if you'll get attacked this turn or not, it's a ship that lives and die by the information it has access to. But of course, I6 gives you the best possible information, so really the I6 on this pilot has to be costed appropriately for that.

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Yeah, at Initiative 6 you have a more info but you still have to choose and not always Vonreg will be in a good position.

He's better than Lulo, of course, but the ship ability is not autothrusters. There is a downside and it is worse than a stress token.

The same with the pilot ability.

Soontir lives and wins because his reposition capabilities, not because his health. I don't see Vonreg doing better than Fel and I don't pay the same for him.

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16 hours ago, S4ul0 said:

Yeah, at Initiative 6 you have a more info but you still have to choose and not always Vonreg will be in a good position.

He's better than Lulo, of course, but the ship ability is not autothrusters. There is a downside and it is worse than a stress token.

The same with the pilot ability.

Soontir lives and wins because his reposition capabilities, not because his health. I don't see Vonreg doing better than Fel and I don't pay the same for him.

Precisely right.  The ship ability on Vonreg’s TIE is a lots worse than Autothrusters and he’s very rarely going to play as a 3/3/2/2 you’re going to spend a lot of turns having to decide to be a 2/3/2/2 just to stand a chance of staying in the game.

 

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Dont forget vonreg is going to get access to the tech slot also. Adv optics will make his two dice deplete attack consistent, and with compusure he can turtle up at just about any time he needs to. He will be a tough cookie. Im guess 56pts. 1 more pt than QD with title.

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6 hours ago, wurms said:

Dont forget vonreg is going to get access to the tech slot also. Adv optics will make his two dice deplete attack consistent, and with compusure he can turtle up at just about any time he needs to. He will be a tough cookie. Im guess 56pts. 1 more pt than QD with title.

I'm confused regarding how composure synergizes with the ship ability-- it seems the best case scenario is boosting and deplete-BR-fail to get a focus action, right?

Edit:  Ohhh.  After executing a maneuver.  Just realized that one.

Composure needs to go up in price, seeing as its only seen usage seems to be to double-mod ships that otherwise can't. 

Edited by RampancyTW

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38 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

I'm confused regarding how composure synergizes with the ship ability-- it seems the best case scenario is boosting and deplete-BR-fail to get a focus action, right?

Edit:  Ohhh.  After executing a maneuver.  Just realized that one.

Composure needs to go up in price, seeing as its only seen usage seems to be to double-mod ships that otherwise can't. 

Yeah, after executing maneuver, take a deplete to fail a roll, take a focus action with composure, then for perform action step take an evade.

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On 11/18/2019 at 5:11 AM, TedW said:

Daredevil - Imho hands down the very best talent for the ship. It adds stress to Boosting, but on the next turn, a single blue move can ditch both Stress and Strain/Deplete at once. With so much close-range mobility, it opens up even more options with sharp boosts, even allowing for a semi-Tallon-Roll using hard Turns 1 while locking someone or barrel rolling. Priceless on Vonreg's bullseye hunt.

I hadn't even thought of this ship at all until I starting reading your post.  After looking at it, the dial, and half way through your overall thoughts, I immediately was thinking Daredevil would be brilliant.  I'm glad you agree.  I mean, you can 1 hard turn (blue), and then 1 hard turn (red) and gain another red token if you need to.  You are probably going to do a Blue next round, so why not?  I think it's a great card for the ship.

On 11/18/2019 at 5:32 AM, Deffly said:

Aggressive build: Outmaneuver + Advanced Optics

Yes, I agree about Advanced Optics.  I find people tend to ignore it, but I find it pretty useful, especially on low Init Tie Fighters.    I do think it's affordable enough that you can take it and use it on those rounds when you know you aren't going to get shot at.  I mean, it turns one blank into a hit for those times when you don't need a Focus for defense or offense.  It's pretty handy.  

 

====

Also, I think it's hard to trash the ship as better or worse than Soontir before you even try flying it.  I mean, he's got the Shields that Soontir doesn't.  The dial is different and will fly differently.  It could be that it's much much better than Soontir.....or much worse.  Or...depends on the fight.   I can see that Blue 1 Bank and 1 Hard to be pretty useful.  

Edited by heychadwick

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On 12/30/2019 at 3:03 PM, heychadwick said:

Also, I think it's hard to trash the ship as better or worse than Soontir before you even try flying it.  I mean, he's got the Shields that Soontir doesn't.  The dial is different and will fly differently.  It could be that it's much much better than Soontir.....or much worse.  Or...depends on the fight.   I can see that Blue 1 Bank and 1 Hard to be pretty useful.  

I second the sentiment, the dial and abilities are actually very different in practice and require very different approaches. Soontir seems faster and more agile, tailored to quick attack runs and flying around dodging arcs. Vonreg seems different in that while he can be outright fast, his strength seems to lie in very close-quarters knife fighting, can slow down and dance around a bit better than Soontir in those ranges, but he can't disengage that well nor be that flexible for wider high-speed repositioning. I'm sure more things will pop up after the official release, but so far I'm glad these ships are distinct enough, especially after my personal disappointment with Silencer being pretty much 'the same as TIE Interceptor but better', even with the copypasted trait and not a unique one (still does its job of course). So far so good I would say :)

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