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Mandalorian - Spoilers inside, don't read until watched

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1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

This show is well done, but sometimes it can feel a bit formulaic and unoriginal.  Clone Wars already did the Seven Samurai thing, and did it well.  Not sure we needed another version that didn't really add anything new.

The show seems influenced by Sergio Leone, John Sturges and other westerns, maybe it’s a double or triple homage, Seven Samurai, The magnificent Seven, and Lone Wolf and Cub.

Edited by Eoen

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8 hours ago, Vondy said:

He is likely more rigid than many "native-born" Mandalorians would be. This provides one heck of a character arc if the writer's want it.

I'm really hoping the show is not going to be a Mando-love-fest.  I was a little worried with the end of E3 ("this is the Way"...yawn), even if the battle itself was pretty cool.  I find their whole culture tedious and unsustainable, the purge of them would have been inevitable.  I thought Rebels did a good job of balancing their cultural demands with the reality of the situation they were in, so I'm still hopeful.  If they use this character's past and connections to explore that balance (making him more rigid initially as you say) then that would indeed be a great arc.

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1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

Clone Wars already did the Seven Samurai thing, and did it well.  Not sure we needed another version that didn't really add anything new.

Have to admit I thought exactly the same thing, the pacing of the scenes is almost identical, even down to the stick thrusting scenes, the fumbling, and corrections.

But I figured a) it's a different setting with a different antagonist, so just enjoy the ride; and b) there are no new stories, only old stories retold, so just enjoy the ride  :) 

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11 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I'm really hoping the show is not going to be a Mando-love-fest.  I was a little worried with the end of E3 ("this is the Way"...yawn), even if the battle itself was pretty cool.  I find their whole culture tedious and unsustainable, the purge of them would have been inevitable.  I thought Rebels did a good job of balancing their cultural demands with the reality of the situation they were in, so I'm still hopeful.  If they use this character's past and connections to explore that balance (making him more rigid initially as you say) then that would indeed be a great arc.

Mini rant (not at/about you, whafrog, you just triggered it):

 

Ugh. I sure hope this isn't another chance to say "let the past die, kill it if you have to" because it was stupid then, and it'd be stupid now. Lucasfilm, if you're listening, WE LIKE MANDOS, OKAY? Don't take THIS from us too...

If the plot twist is that he leaves the Mandalorians and disavows their way of life, I'm gonna be fed up with Disney Star Wars.

 

I get why some people have issues with the Mandalorian culture, but they're really cool and I can suspend disbelief enough to get their continued existence (I can also make a bunch of arguments as to why their continued existence makes sense, but I'll let that slide for now).

Edited by P-47 Thunderbolt

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10 hours ago, Vondy said:

Helmets: I don't think there was ever a question that Mandalorians do take their helmets off. You end up with a ludicrous set of logical extremes if you assert otherwise. They strike me as clannish and insular rather than rigidly impractical. The only questions I have is "when do they take them off and in front of whom?" Based on his previous exchange with the forger I would conclude "never in front of an enemy." Based on this episode I would add: "never in public or in the presence of outsiders." I postulate, in their private places, Mandos remove their helmets around kinfolk, fellow warriors, or intimate friends. For a Mandalorian to remove their helmet in front of you would likely be a great honor and a sign that they considered you extremely worthy or "one of us."  

The thing I note is the exchange with Vizla and the Smith and her word use. "Walk the path if the Mandalore."

Makes it sound less like a universal and more like some kind of quasi religious thing that not all mandos do. Makes me think of Canderous Ordo and the Mandalore from KotOR 1&2 and how he went from a Merc to a permahelmeted leader.

So yeah, logical limits, but I do think we'll see his helmet stay on, though I also don't think all mandos follow this practice, hence earlier stuff.

Edited by Ghostofman

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10 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

If by “Mandos,” you’re referring to the overpowered Karen Traviss interpretation, all I can say about your use of “we” is...

I say good riddance to all that tripe that she wrote.  She was one of the leading reasons the Expanded Universe needed to go (Kevin J. Anderson's over-reliance on "Imperial superweapon of the week" and "fallen student of Luke's praxuem" is the main one), and I feel bad for the authors that had to work around her Boba Fettish for the Legacy of the Force novel series (the same one where Jaina Solo, a veteran fighter pilot and Jedi Knight, had to "learn how to wage war" from Fett).

 

11 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

This show is well done, but sometimes it can feel a bit formulaic and unoriginal.  Clone Wars already did the Seven Samurai thing, and did it well.  Not sure we needed another version that didn't really add anything new.

You're not alone on this.  So far watching the show hasn't felt like it's become a chore, but I'm not exactly excited to see the next episode.  I was more eager to see the next episode of any of the seasons of The Dragon Prince or Stranger Things on Netflix than I am to see the next episode of this show.

Though I do think that I've very much gotten used to the Netflix option of being able to watch a whole season at once.  Which might help alleviate the plodding pace this series has so far.

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59 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I say good riddance to all that tripe that she wrote.  She was one of the leading reasons the Expanded Universe needed to go (Kevin J. Anderson's over-reliance on "Imperial superweapon of the week" and "fallen student of Luke's praxuem" is the main one), and I feel bad for the authors that had to work around her Boba Fettish for the Legacy of the Force novel series (the same one where Jaina Solo, a veteran fighter pilot and Jedi Knight, had to "learn how to wage war" from Fett).

Not to cause too much of another digression to the thread, but her entries in that series felt completely disconnected from the other six books.

Closer to being back on topic, maybe between Clone Wars, Rebels, and now this show, what we’re seeing is a bit of a mix, allowing all of the various interpretations to be “true.” The Traviss-style approach is a particular quasi-religious sect that adheres to certain fairly rigid customs and has become the galactic stereotype for all Mandalorians.

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2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

You're not alone on this.  So far watching the show hasn't felt like it's become a chore, but I'm not exactly excited to see the next episode. 

I only experienced this during the first episode. For me the show has definitely found its feet and I am super excited to see what it will bring to the table in the episodes to come. 
I am still very iffy about the whole tracker-thing but other than that I have enjoyed the last three episodes enormously. 

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3 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

If by “Mandos,” you’re referring to the overpowered Karen Traviss interpretation, all I can say about your use of “we” is (snip)

I was referring to Mandalorians more in general, but I really don't get people's hatred of Karen Traviss. I'm not familiar with her books in eras later than the Clone Wars, but from what I've seen from the Clone Wars era books, I really don't get it. Mandalorians are kinda awesome, just in general, and Karen Traviss expanded upon them and (unless I'm much mistaken) basically gave us their language.

Plus, "we" was referring to the large part of the hardcore Star Wars fandom who like Mandalorians (in whatever manifestation of their warrior culture). So if you don't like Mandos, you aren't a part of "we" and if you do, you are.

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2 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

Never read anything by Traviss and don't plan to, but I love the KOTOR portrayal of Mandalorians and the show definitely evokes that for me. 

Smart move regarding her Star Wars stuff.

Interesting observation about the KOTOR version of the Mandos.  I can certainly see the similarities, as it seems that the Mandos in this show are in a similar rough state as the KOTOR era Mandos, what with being spread across the galaxy after losing to a galactic superpower, and being reduced to taking what boils down to mercenary work in order to make ends meet.

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21 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I loved that fight scene. Part of what made it so good is that rather than just whaling on each other, you could see the different fighting styles and how Cara would make more use of leverage and momentum, whereas the Mandalorian tended to be more of the straight-up brawler. And yeah, she really does. I also loved how it ended in a draw, though one could argue that it was Baby Yoda who won. :P

When the scene started, I was concerned we were going to end up with another Atomic Blond fight scene, but no, it ended up being really good.

yeah, I liked watching her fight.  It was basically just continual haymakers and hooks with a lot of momentum.  lol

 

Also, my brothers noted something about when Visla and Mando had at it.  It's hard to say given how fast it happened, but they're convinced Visla opened the fight by trying to take off Mando's helmet (act of shaming).  I'm more in the boat these warrior-oath types flat out don't take off their helmets in the presence of anyone.

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Actually, I'm not positive, but I think we saw one in "Jedi Crash" the episode where they crashed on Maridun. We might have also seen one in the final episode of the Malevolence arc. There were probably a few other episodes in teh Clone Wars where we saw one, but those are just off the top of my head.

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3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Smart move regarding her Star Wars stuff.

Interesting observation about the KOTOR version of the Mandos.  I can certainly see the similarities, as it seems that the Mandos in this show are in a similar rough state as the KOTOR era Mandos, what with being spread across the galaxy after losing to a galactic superpower, and being reduced to taking what boils down to mercenary work in order to make ends meet.

I think there are 2 levels of Traviss's work. Her clone wars stuff and her other star wars stuff. 

I think her clone wars stuff was fine. I think she went off the deep end with her other stuff. 

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4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I think there are 2 levels of Traviss's work. Her clone wars stuff and her other star wars stuff. 

I think her clone wars stuff was fine. I think she went off the deep end with her other stuff. 

I forgot. I have one huge, glaring issue with Traviss's Mandalorians: Their favorite sport is soccer. <_< SOCCER! If only she was American, then it would have been gridiron football and made soo much more sense. Instead of "Mesh'la Geroya" it would have been "Ramikad Geroya" "the commando game".

I mean, you've got full-body contact, small-team tactics, strategy, quick thinking, discipline and there is far less flopping. It would be great training and it makes so much more sense for Mandos. It really is a thinking game, and perfect for Mandalorians. They'd play it in full Mandalorian armor, It'd be great. Paz Visla would be a linebacker, the Mandalorian would probably be a wide receiver... Oh, it'd be awesome. Dang Brits... :(

Oh, well. At least it can be my head canon...

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6 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Closer to being back on topic, maybe between Clone Wars, Rebels, and now this show, what we’re seeing is a bit of a mix, allowing all of the various interpretations to be “true.” The Traviss-style approach is a particular quasi-religious sect that adheres to certain fairly rigid customs and has become the galactic stereotype for all Mandalorians.

Agreed. I would like to see a nod the notion that the Mandalorian diaspora is not a monolithic hive-mind. Different clans (or related clan-groups) may have different customs vis-a-vis their shared ancient traditions. The one-size fits all Sci-Fi Warrior Culture Guy (TM) gets really boring really fast. A real world example would be sectarian and ethnic divisions within ethnically-rooted Orthodox religious movements. Orthodox Jewish custom, reading of the law, and liturgy contains striking variations depending on which group you are dealing with. The same is true of the ethnic Orthodox Christian churches and various regionally-anchored Islamic sects. Ultra-Orthodox Hassidic Jewry, Wahabist Muslims, and monastic Christian communities are all much more rigid than the wider cultural-religious communities they are yet a part of. They are also the first people who spring to many people's minds when they think of their peoples / faiths / etc. Traviss' Mandos could be regarded as "the ultra-orthodox" Mandos. That would give us plenty of room to reconcile the different canonical takes on Mandalorian customs. Clan Wren and the Death Watch (I'm looking at you Sabine and Bo-Katan!), would be a touch more relaxed. But, I don't think we'll see our Mando take his helmet off. He's very much "The Man With No Name" with the addition of "The Man With No Face, Either." Its his schtick.

Edited by Vondy

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