Huge questions after first game with Huge ships.

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

Going to start adding to this thread for questions: 

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Hey, is it really intended that ships like Ywings don't get to turn their turret if they're a wingman? 

I also assume that since it says : "During the Activation Phase and at all other times, a wingmate is limited to the following actions:"

The limited part means that you don't gain the ability to calculate if you don't have it right? You're just limited to these options of your normal choices. 

Does this also mean a wingman cannot repair a damage card? 

===

Hull Breach Damage card: 

Does it immediately resolve for THIS/the attack that deals it? 

Ex. I have 2 faced cards already. I eat 1 critical 4 hits, the critical is Hull Breach. Do I now resolve the Hull Breach and add 3 more damage? 

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

It says for your "standard attack" that you can use a secondary weapon. Is that true? And then you can attack again with that secondary weapon as a bonus weapon? 

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Going to start adding to this thread for questions: 

===

Hey, is it really intended that ships like Ywings don't get to turn their turret if they're a wingman? 

I also assume that since it says : "During the Activation Phase and at all other times, a wingmate is limited to the following actions:"

The limited part means that you don't gain the ability to calculate if you don't have it right? You're just limited to these options of your normal choices. 

Does this also mean a wingman cannot repair a damage card? 

===

Hull Breach Damage card: 

Does it immediately resolve for THIS/the attack that deals it? 

Ex. I have 2 faced cards already. I eat 1 critical 4 hits, the critical is Hull Breach. Do I now resolve the Hull Breach and add 3 more damage? 

1. Rotate Action:  It does appear that wingmates can't rotate arcs.  I assume it's part of the thematic restriction of having a full cluster of ships moving as a single unit... they've got enough going on staying in formation, to also be firing at targets in all quadrants.
2. Limited Actions:  You're correct in your assumption that Wingmates aren't suddenly permitted to do actions that aren't on their action bar;  rather, they are prohibited from performing any action that isn't on the restricted list (Calculate, Evade, Focus, Lock, Reinforce).
3. Damage Card Actions:  You're also correct, that Wingmates cannot perform damage card actions.  Remember in Episode 4, when Wedge got hit during the trench run, and Luke told him to bail out of the formation?  It's the same idea... to stay in a wing, you have to follow those special rules.
4. Hull Breach Damage:  This card does nothing in particular when it is initially suffered.  However, after this card is face-up on your ship, then instead of suffering "hits" on attacks, you suffer "crits" instead.  In your example, you're already suffering critical damage, so nothing worse happens at face value... HOWEVER, if any of those further critical damage cards would cause more damage (say due to a Direct Hit), then instead of suffering the "hit" damage face down, you would suffer a face-up "crit" damage instead.

We'll discuss Attacks, Bonus Attacks, and Special Weapons in another post

 

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

5 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Hull Breach Damage:  This card does nothing in particular when it is initially suffered.  However, after this card is face-up on your ship, then instead of suffering "hits" on attacks, you suffer "crits" instead.  In your example, you're already suffering critical damage, so nothing worse happens at face value... HOWEVER, if any of those further critical damage cards would cause more damage (say due to a Direct Hit), then instead of suffering the "hit" damage face down, you would suffer a face-up "crit" damage instead.

You've got the wrong Hull Breach, the Huge ship one has different text. 

Though, I also need the reasoning why "This card does nothing in particular when it is initially suffered". Need citation or proof. 

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

15 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

It says for your "standard attack" that you can use a secondary weapon. Is that true? And then you can attack again with that secondary weapon as a bonus weapon? 

First off, I think we need to define some terms.

• A Primary Weapon is the ship's built-in guns, be they front arc, side arc, or what have you.  This is indicated by the shaded arcs on a ship's base, and the attack value on their card.
• A Special Weapon is a different attack granted by a card (they were known as Secondary Weapons in first editon).  Huge ships can equip certain Hardpoint upgrades that grant these weapons; other upgrades might allow them to equip standard-ship turrets, cannons, missiles, or torpedoes.
• A Standard Attack is the one basic attack every ship gets to perform on their turn, from any normal weapon they're carrying.  Aside from a ship's Primary Weapon, a ship can perform a Standard Attack from a Special Weapon that has the "Attack:" header on it (see Ion Cannon below).
• A Bonus Attack is an extra attack that ships can perform on a turn.  Huge ships may perform any number of these attacks they wish in a single turn (as long as they can pay the costs).  Usually (but not always), these are defined by the "Bonus Attack:" header on the weapon itself.

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

@emeraldbeacon thanks that does help about the attacks. 

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

What are the special restrictions on Huge Ships? Can't change initiative? What about engagement value? 

This precludes Roark? 

How does ___ work with Huge ships?: 

Han rebel gunner

Ezrea Bridger gunner

Jan Ors pilot

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

and double check: If you're being attacked (non-ordnance) at R4-5, you get: 

Base + R3 bonus die + R4 double bonus die, is that correct? 

===

A Huge ship is strained by a single strain? 

Can a Huge ship have Force tokens like normal? From upgrades?

Edited December 1, 2019 by Blail Blerg

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

You've got the wrong Hull Breach, the Huge ship one has different text. 

Though, I also need the reasoning why "This card does nothing in particular when it is initially suffered". Need citation or proof. 

I answered your question to the letter...  Showing your work helps to avoid errors like this.  Providing a card image (or at least exact card text) is extremely helpful to those trying to help you... especially correct card names.   As for the actual card:

Quote

HULL RUPTURE (Ship)

Precision Shot (side arcs):  The attacker chooses one of your [Hardpoint] upgrades that is not OFFLINE.  Flip that card.

After defending, if you suffered HIT or CRIT damage, suffer one additional HIT damage for each of your faceup damage cards.  Then repair this card.  ACTION:  Repair this card.

In this case, it depends on when you suffer the damage.  If you rammed an obstacle or an enemy ship and suffered that damage, then it sits in wait on your hull, waiting for you to get shot.  If you received it during the course of an attack, you're in for a very bad day.  In your example:

• you suffered 4 hits and 1 critical on the attack.  The critical damage card you received was "Hull Rupture."
• After defending (i.e. immediately after the attack), Hull Rupture checks to see if it triggers.  Since you did take damage (any amount, the quantity doesn't matter), the damage card enters the ability queue, then resolves.
• Since you have 1 face-up damage card, you suffer 1 additional damage, then Hull Rupture flips face down.  (If you had 2 face-up cards at the time, you would have suffered 2 damage instead)

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

@emeraldbeacon haha thanks, you're right. I got the wrong card. So, your interpretation is that it will trigger on the attack that you gained it from. Thus in my example, where you already had 2 faceups, then add Hull Rupture, you take a total of 3 more damage, for a total of 8? 

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

12 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What are the special restrictions on Huge Ships? Can't change initiative? What about engagement value? 

This precludes Roark? 

How does ___ work with Huge ships?: 

Han rebel gunner

Ezrea Bridger gunner

Jan Ors pilot

1. Initiative & Engagement Value:  There's nothing that would prohibit a huge ship from having its values changed in a round... but you need to remember that what you're changing might not be worth doing anything to.  Since huge ships engage at their engagement value, changing their initiative wouldn't matter for combat purposes.
2. Han Solo Gunner:  He works just like the card reads.  You need to have a turret for him to shoot out of, but otherwise, take that Init-7 shot all you like!
3. Ezra Gunner:  Again, just as the card reads.  After you perform a primary attack (meaning your primary weapon), you can perform a turret attack that you haven't used that turn, for the cost of a force.  Huge ships can use as many bonus attacks as they like, so fire away!
4. Jan Ors Pilot:  Once again... just like the card says!  Feel free to pump epic ships' attack dice... remembering, though, that there's a cap of 6, on dice rolls.

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

Can Huges be Coordinated? (Seems like no special ruling on this) 

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

11 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

@emeraldbeacon haha thanks, you're right. I got the wrong card. So, your interpretation is that it will trigger on the attack that you gained it from. Thus in my example, where you already had 2 faceups, then add Hull Rupture, you take a total of 3 more damage, for a total of 8? 

If you already had 2 faceup, then added Hull Rupture, then after the attack, you would suffer 3 additional damage (then repair Hull Rupture).

23 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

and double check: If you're being attacked (non-ordnance) at R4-5, you get: 

Base + R3 bonus die + R4 double bonus die, is that correct? 

===

A Huge ship is strained by a single strain? 

• Range Bonuses:  At Range 0-1, Attackers get +1 dice.  At Range 2, nobody gets bonuses.  At Range 3, defenders get +1 dice.  At Range 4 or greater, defenders get +2 dice.  You only get the bonus that your particular range bracket gives you; they are not cumulative (i.e. range 3 AND range 4, for +3 defense dice)
• Strain:  The rules only give huge ships a break when it comes to ion and tractor tokens.  A single Strain token has its usual effect (though minimized, likely, by the fact that huge ships have such low agility).  It's important to note that other effects, like Disarm, Jam, and probably the upcoming (and unknown) Deplete tokens, all seem to have their usual effects!
• Coordinate:  Again, there's no rules against doing so.  Therefore, coordinate the capital ships to your heart's content... though usually, it's more effective to get those actions out to your OTHER ships (due to the whole all-eggs-in-one-basket principle).

Edited December 1, 2019 by emeraldbeacon

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

2 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Range Bonuses:  At Range 0-1, Attackers get +1 dice.  At Range 2, nobody gets bonuses.  At Range 3, defenders get +1 dice.  At Range 4 or greater, defenders get +2 dice.  You only get the bonus that your particular range bracket gives you; they are not cumulative (i.e. range 3 AND range 4, for +3 defense dice)

Oh, why is this? 

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

12 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Oh, why is this? 

Think of it this way.  If I'm shooting you at Range 4, and you want to add both the Range 3 and Range 4 bonus in, should I also get to add the Range 1 bonus, since the attack is passing through Range 1?  Of course not!  To that end, each individual, separate range bracket has its own perqs, for one ship or the other.  Once the range of the attack is determined, you don't add ALL of the range-based bonuses and penalties in between, you just get the one bonus for that specific distance:

• Range 0 - Attacker gets one extra die (if you can perform the attack at all)
• Range 1 - Attacker gets one extra die
• Range 2 - no bonuses
• Range 3 - Defender gets one extra die
• Range 4 - Defender gets two extra dice
• Range 5 - Defender gets two extra dice

Of course, other benefits that are derived from obstructions or card abilities are added to the pool as well.  An obstructed Range 4 shot at a cloaked TIE Phantom would grant the defender 2 (base) + 2 (cloak) + 2 (range) + 1 (obstruction) = 7 defense dice (which would then be lowered to 6, due to the rules-enforced cap).

Edited December 1, 2019 by emeraldbeacon
spelling and clarification

[Bort 249]

Gunners and Hardpoints.

As we discussed here Veteran Turret Gunner doesn't add anything useful to mix because the hardpoint is already a bonus attack.

 

But does Han Solo (rebel) gunner work with hardpoints?

"Does perform a {turret}" include "Bonus Attack" turrets?   If not then he won't work at the moment since there is currently no ship that can have both a non-hardpoint turret AND have a gunner slot.

 

 

Ps.  dumb aside question. How do I properly link to another thread.  I use the little chain icon and link like any other URL. But this doesn't give me a link like i have seen others do here where you can see the topic of the thread you link too in a little box.

 

[Lyianx 1,434]

On 12/1/2019 at 12:59 AM, emeraldbeacon said:

Huge ships can use as many bonus attacks as they like, so fire away!

Eh.. Yes and no, barring this restriction..

Quote

A huge ship can use each “Bonus Attack:” or “Attack:” header only once per round.

So be careful which shot you use Ezra for, because he will use up your "once per round" for that header. Honestly, I see Ezra as being kind of a waste here unless you have a normal (non-hardpoint) turret on the ship you really want to fire along with your primary. But i dont think either the GR-75 or the CR-90 can take both a gunner, And a normal turret upgrade. 

[Lyianx 1,434]

On 12/1/2019 at 1:03 AM, Blail Blerg said:

Can Huges be Coordinated? (Seems like no special ruling on this) 

So far, yes. (assuming you mean huge ships). They haven't restricted that as of yet. I believe that was a restriction in 1E.

[nitrobenz 1,369]

4 hours ago, Bort said:

Ps.  dumb aside question. How do I properly link to another thread.  I use the little chain icon and link like any other URL. But this doesn't give me a link like i have seen others do here where you can see the topic of the thread you link too in a little box.

Paste the URL directly into the post, skip the link button, and it should automatically turn into a preview box.

The chain link icon is for turning text into a hyperlink

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

Still don't get this. How does attacking with a Huge ship work if you choose to use a secondary weapon? The bonus attack header makes me confused what parts of the attack/requirements apply vs which ones don't. 

Can I attack with standard attack via Targeting Battery, then do it again as a bonus attack? 

Do I spend 1 energy for the first attack? 

[theBitterFig 11,598]

I'm pretty sure that your standard attack can only be either: {primary weapon} or  {something with the "Attack:" header}.  After that, do all the "Bonus Attack:" you like without repeating.  Now, most Epic ships won't have a secondary weapon with the "Attack:" header.  But most regular ships don't.

Edited December 3, 2019 by theBitterFig

[Lyianx 1,434]

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Still don't get this. How does attacking with a Huge ship work if you choose to use a secondary weapon? The bonus attack header makes me confused what parts of the attack/requirements apply vs which ones don't. 

Can I attack with standard attack via Targeting Battery, then do it again as a bonus attack? 

Do I spend 1 energy for the first attack? 

Non-bonus attacks can only be with the "Attack:" header. This means either your primary weapon, or a secondary weapon with the "Attack:" header. These (typically) do not have a cost to them.
Targeting battery you can only attack as a bonus attack, so it wont count as your primary weapon. Each time you use Targeting battery, you are triggering one of the "bonus attack:" headers, and each header can only be triggered once per turn.

You can perform the bonus attack either before, or after your normal engagement phase attack (ie, Attack: header attacks or primary weapon)

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Still don't get this. How does attacking with a Huge ship work if you choose to use a secondary weapon? The bonus attack header makes me confused what parts of the attack/requirements apply vs which ones don't. 

Can I attack with standard attack via Targeting Battery, then do it again as a bonus attack? 

Do I spend 1 energy for the first attack? 

Ok, starting off...

• On your turn, a huge ship gets 1 ATTACK, plus any number of BONUS ATTACKS.
• You may only perform an attack from a given "Attack:" or "Bonus Attack:" header once per round.

The ATTACK can be:

• The ship's primary weapon (printed on the ship card), OR...
• Any upgrade card that includes the "Attack:" header.

The BONUS ATTACKS can be:

• Any upgrade that includes the "Bonus Attack:" header
• Any upgrade that lets you perform a Bonus Attack, with an attack that has an "Attack:" header (like Ordnance Tubes).

 

As for Targeting Battery, since the weapon has a "Bonus Attack:" header, you may not use it as an Attack, only as a Bonus Attack.  You must also pay the cost associated with the attack (1 energy).  That said, you may perform your Attack and Bonus Attacks in any order, so you may use the Targeting Battery first, *then* use your primary weapon.

[Blail Blerg 7,585]

Just now, Lyianx said:

Non-bonus attacks can only be with the "Attack:" header. This means either your primary weapon, or a secondary weapon with the "Attack:" header. These (typically) do not have a cost to them.
Targeting battery you can only attack as a bonus attack, so it wont count as your primary weapon. Each time you use Targeting battery, you are triggering one of the "bonus attack:" headers, and each header can only be triggered once per turn.

You can perform the bonus attack either before, or after your normal engagement phase attack (ie, Attack: header attacks or primary weapon)

Ok, so this means that you could only use a Turret or a Ordnance attack as a replacement for your primary, a la only the Raider basically can do this. 

(Getting farther from the point, the implication is that the Raider can fire twice at R4 by using bombardment specs using this rule if other requirements like calculates and TLs are satisfied.)

[Lyianx 1,434]

6 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok, so this means that you could only use a Turret or a Ordnance attack as a replacement for your primary, a la only the Raider basically can do this. 

Correct (or if granted a bonus attack by another ability). Also the C-ROC with Corsair Refit can also do this.

- Note with the Corsair Refit. If you use one of those secondary weapons for your standard attack, you cannot then attack with that weapon again with the CR's bonus attack, as you would have already used that "Attack:" header on that weapon.

 

6 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

(Getting farther from the point, the implication is that the Raider can fire twice at R4 by using bombardment specs using this rule if other requirements like calculates and TLs are satisfied.)

Sounds about right.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Lyianx