Huge questions after first game with Huge ships.

[drail14me 1,255]

Had a few questions come up in today’s game with huge ships. Weren’t able to find a clear answer in the rule booklet. 
 

1. Overlapping obstacles. When banking around a rock, the ship base never overlapped the rock but the template did. The Huge rules do not mention the template when discussing overlapping so we played that the template doesn’t count. Correct?

2. When measuring range from a huge ship where do you measure from? I was using a CR-90 with two turret upgrades. So, for primary, we measured closest to closest points within the Primary Arc from Huge cardboard to enemy plastic. Same with the Turrets weapons using the turret arc for the turret preforming the attack, fore or aft. Correct?

3. When using the Turbolaser Battery, it has a range of 3-5 with the lock requirement. The CR-90 can lock out to range 4. How do you get the lock at range 5?

[SILENT FURY 13]

Adding to these questions that we also had, Corsair Refit says Bonus Attack: spend one energy to perform a cannon, turret, or missle attack. 

Since Huge ships do not have a limit to the number of bonus attacks can you keep spending one energy to fire from all different equiped cannon, turret, and missle. The Croc can equip one of each.  

[Ccwebb 497]

Sensor Experts 

“While you lock, coordinate, or jam, you may spend up to 3  to increase the range at which you can choose an object by 1 per  spent this way, to a maximum of range 5“

 

Boosted Scanners 

“While you lock, coordinate, or jam, you may spend up to 3  to increase the range at which you can choose an object by 1 per  spent this way, to a maximum of range 5.”

 

[drail14me 1,255]

16 minutes ago, SILENT FURY said:

Adding to these questions that we also had, Corsair Refit says Bonus Attack: spend one energy to perform a cannon, turret, or missle attack. 

Since Huge ships do not have a limit to the number of bonus attacks can you keep spending one energy to fire from all different equiped cannon, turret, and missle. The Croc can equip one of each.  

you can preform one bonus attack for each upgrade that has the Bonus Attack header per turn. So, if you had two turret upgrades and each had the Bonus Attack header, you could attack with each once per turn.
Corsair Refit lets you add a Cannon, Turret and Missile slot. You can add one of each but the Corsair Refit card only has one Bonus Attack header so you’d have to pick one of those upgrades to use each turn. That’s how I understand it. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by drail14me

[drail14me 1,255]

4 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

Sensor Experts 

“While you lock, coordinate, or jam, you may spend up to 3  to increase the range at which you can choose an object by 1 per  spent this way, to a maximum of range 5“

 

Boosted Scanners 

“While you lock, coordinate, or jam, you may spend up to 3  to increase the range at which you can choose an object by 1 per  spent this way, to a maximum of range 5.”

 

So, to be able to do an Alpha Strike with the Turbolaser Battery, you have to have a second upgrade to get the full lock range. Targeting Battery would work as well, right?

[Ccwebb 497]

24 minutes ago, drail14me said:

Had a few questions come up in today’s game with huge ships. Weren’t able to find a clear answer in the rule booklet. 
 

1. Overlapping obstacles. When banking around a rock, the ship base never overlapped the rock but the template did. The Huge rules do not mention the template when discussing overlapping so we played that the template doesn’t count. Correct?

2. When measuring range from a huge ship where do you measure from? I was using a CR-90 with two turret upgrades. So, for primary, we measured closest to closest points within the Primary Arc from Huge cardboard to enemy plastic. Same with the Turrets weapons using the turret arc for the turret preforming the attack, fore or aft. Correct?

3. When using the Turbolaser Battery, it has a range of 3-5 with the lock requirement. The CR-90 can lock out to range 4. How do you get the lock at range 5?

I agree with what y’all did for overlaps with huge measuring tool.  The tool does not gain the effect of overlap for huge. 
 

For range, there should be a marked line in the middle of all huge ships. You measure from the closest to closest without crossing the line. 

[Ccwebb 497]

3 minutes ago, drail14me said:

So, to be able to do an Alpha Strike with the Turbolaser Battery, you have to have a second upgrade to get the full lock range. Targeting Battery would work as well, right?

Yes, attack with Target Battery first to ‘ Acquire ’ the lock.  

[SILENT FURY 13]

2 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

For range, there should be a marked line in the middle of all huge ships. You measure from the closest to closest without crossing the line. 

Its true there are four marked quadrants in the middle of the huge ship token but there are also partial lines under each ship peg. I'm guessing those are just to notify which arc it's pointing to or do you use those arcs and not the middle arc?

[emeraldbeacon 1,996]

7 minutes ago, SILENT FURY said:

Its true there are four marked quadrants in the middle of the huge ship token but there are also partial lines under each ship peg. I'm guessing those are just to notify which arc it's pointing to or do you use those arcs and not the middle arc?

Yes... Huge Ships now have the same four quadrants of standard ships... forward, rear, left and right, all defined by the center "X" on the base.  The markings under the ship pegs are to make it explicitly clear which way the turret/s are pointing... they're still considered to be generated from the quadrants created at the center of the ship.

[drail14me 1,255]

Next question from a second game. As written, it would seem that Kylo’s ability of “I’ll show you the dark side” doesn’t work on Huge ships as there is no “Pilot” card in the damage deck. We played allowing him to use the “Crew” cards in the damage deck. 

[Faerie1979 300]

On 11/10/2019 at 8:26 PM, drail14me said:

So, to be able to do an Alpha Strike with the Turbolaser Battery, you have to have a second upgrade to get the full lock range. Targeting Battery would work as well, right?

With the CR-90 I believe since it's primary weapon range is 4 the ship can also target lock at range 4. That said, yeah Targeting Battery would definately allow you to fire the Turbolaser Battery since even if you fail to do damage with TB you still get the lock.

[meffo 1,401]

that's not nice. targetting battery does not let you lock outside of range 3, since it doesn't specify otherwise. seems unintentional. should be clarified or erratad to work beyond range 3. i mean, there is space on the card for ", ignoring range restrictions.", so it should have been there.

primary weapon range has nothing to do with range requirements for acquiring locks. 

i mean, using targetting battery to acquire a lock at range 3 and then firing turbolaser battery is fine, but that's restricted to range 3 only currently.



i guess turbolasers are a bit more useful with sensor experts equipped, even though sensor experts does not combo with targetting battery, since you must perform a lock action to get the extra locks from sensor experts, but still.  boosted scanners seems to work nicely, though. yes, boosted scanners seems kind of mandatory if you're planning on using the targetting battery / turbolasers combo. possibly, there are other upgrades that can help as well, i'm just not that up to date with all the epic stuff. obviously, jendon is very useful if you're planning on bringing turbolasers.

[nitrobenz 1,369]

7 hours ago, meffo said:

primary weapon range has nothing to do with range requirements for acquiring locks. 

That is correct, but the Broadside Batteries ship ability does allow range 4 locks

On an unrelated note, FFG search bar is not helpful at all. I remembered seeing this but the search only returned results for 1e or Armada when I entered "Tantive" "Corvette" and "CR-90". I only found the article by digging through several pages of "more news" from the FFG home page.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/9/24/delivering-hope/

[Faerie1979 300]

9 hours ago, meffo said:

that's not nice. targetting battery does not let you lock outside of range 3, since it doesn't specify otherwise. seems unintentional. should be clarified or erratad to work beyond range 3. i mean, there is space on the card for ", ignoring range restrictions.", so it should have been there.

Targeting Battery, as written, is one of two normal exceptions to being able to lock only at range 1-3. It lets you acquire lock on the target because you fired the Targeting Battery at them, and has a max range of 5. Think of it as the TB's gunnery crew firing multiple shots to zero in the range, and feeding the acquired targeting information to the Turbolaser battery. But yeah, otherwise Turbolaser is less useful. A Raider for example needs Boosted Sensors to get a lock on something range 4-5. The CR-90 needs them normally for locking at range 5. Obviously targeting battery was made to go hand in hand with turbolaser battery and ordinance tubes.

Remember, firing the targeting battery is not taking a Lock action. It's firing the weapon battery. As such if you're rolling dice, you've already determined that the enemy is within the targeting battery's range. Thus you get to apply a Lock due to the targeting battery's ability.

[meffo 1,401]

2 minutes ago, Faerie1979 said:

Targeting Battery, as written, is one of two normal exceptions to being able to lock only at range 1-3. It lets you acquire lock on the target because you fired the Targeting Battery at them, and has a max range of 5. Think of it as the TB's gunnery crew firing multiple shots to zero in the range, and feeding the acquired targeting information to the Turbolaser battery. But yeah, otherwise Turbolaser is less useful. A Raider for example needs Boosted Sensors to get a lock on something range 4-5. The CR-90 needs them normally for locking at range 5. Obviously targeting battery was made to go hand in hand with turbolaser battery and ordinance tubes.

Remember, firing the targeting battery is not taking a Lock action. It's firing the weapon battery. As such if you're rolling dice, you've already determined that the enemy is within the targeting battery's range. Thus you get to apply a Lock due to the targeting battery's ability.

i agree that's probably the intention, but it's not the rules as written.

"◊ If a ship is instructed to acquire a lock, the object it locks must be at range 0–3 unless otherwise specified."

i'm well aware that you're not taking a lock action. you are still instructed to acquire a lock though. that's what the card says - and the rules clearly state that the object must be at range 0-3 unless otherwise specified.

so targeting battery is not written as though it allows you to acquire locks beyond range 3, no. if it was, it would have had the normal wording for abilities that let you do that, like sensor experts for example - ", ignoring range restrictions.".

please note that i'm 100% with you that the intention is probably for targeting battery letting you take locks beyond range 3. but unfortunately, that's not how it's written.

[Faerie1979 300]

Someone will need to get an official clarification on this, wont they? Because if they still are limiting the targeting battery to acquiring lock only at range 1-3, that will pretty much staple Boosted Sensors onto any ship that even considers using Turbolaser Battery.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Faerie1979

[meffo 1,401]

1 minute ago, Faerie1979 said:

Someone will need to get an official clarification on this, wont they?

nah, never mind. no one will every play epic anyway. it's just a bad game mode.

[nitrobenz 1,369]

10 minutes ago, meffo said:

"◊ If a ship is instructed to acquire a lock, the object it locks must be at range 0–3 unless otherwise specified."
...

Underline added for emphasis. Since battery does not explicitly state it ignores standard Aquire a Lock restrictions, it does not ignore.

10 minutes ago, meffo said:

please note that i'm 100% with you that the intention is probably for targeting battery letting you take locks beyond range 3. but unfortunately, that's not how it's written.

I also agree here. Classic RAI vs RAW

Edited November 14, 2019 by nitrobenz
Proofread

[nitrobenz 1,369]

5 minutes ago, Faerie1979 said:

Someone will need to get an official clarification on this, wont they? Because if they still are limiting the targeting battery to acquiring lock only at range 1-3, that will pretty much staple Boosted Sensors onto any ship that even considers using Turbolaser Battery.

As long as they're priced accordingly it should work out to just use it Rules As Written.

(I would still appreciate clarification though)

Edited November 14, 2019 by nitrobenz
Proofread

[Faerie1979 300]

Consider that Targeting Battery costs 9 points and Boosted Scanners costs 8 points. Total of 17 points if you need both upgrades. And that's above and beyond the opportunity cost of having to fill the upgrade slots with those specific upgrades. That's nearly half the cost of a Jendon piloted lambda shuttle (which is 46 points). If you include the cost of Turbolaser Battery (15 points), then you're paying 32 points in total to make the turbo laser+targeting battery combo work as it was probably intended to work. And remember, Turbolaser has a minimum range of 3, while Targeting Battery has a minimum range of 2. Also, if you are required to use Boosted Sensors, it would cost you a total of 5-6 energy in one turn if you want to fire a single turbolaser shot. 4-5 energy if you're using the CR-90.

[Lyianx 1,434]

21 minutes ago, Faerie1979 said:

Someone will need to get an official clarification on this, wont they?

Its clarified already. May not be clarified the way some people want, but its 100% clear, intention aside. The only clarification you could really ask for is "did you write Targeting Battery wrong?" which im guessing the answer would be "no"

[dotswarlock 2,424]

Althernative (for Rebels), field Bodhi Rook and send part of your escort forward (as you should).  Problem solved.  Jendon for the Empire works quite well.

 

EDIT: Just to emphasize something, what kept a turbolaser from wreaking havok against everything in V1 was the doubling of the agility rule.  You apparently can still do it in V2, but it requires a substantial investment if you want the freedom to do it at range 5.

Edited November 14, 2019 by dotswarlock

[Parakitor 5,654]

On 11/14/2019 at 1:44 PM, Lyianx said:

Its clarified already. May not be clarified the way some people want, but its 100% clear, intention aside. The only clarification you could really ask for is "did you write Targeting Battery wrong?" which im guessing the answer would be "no"

Pretty sure that's exactly what we all mean. I've already submitted a first batch of rules questions, including this one, (maybe a little more tactful than "did you write Targeting Battery wrong?") so hopefully we see some official errata or FAQ in the not-too-distant future.

[Lyianx 1,434]

8 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Pretty sure that's exactly what we all mean

Not really. It feels much more like " i want it to work this way, and it doesnt" than "im not sure what you mean by this". 

 

 

8 hours ago, Parakitor said:

hopefully we see some official errata or FAQ in the not-too-distant future.

For that specific thing? dont bet on it. 

[Maui. 2,815]

I don't see why anyone should assume that Targeting Battery doesn't work precisely the way it's supposed to work. When I first looked at the spread it seemed pretty clear to me that Turbolaser Battery is an extremely potent weapon and that using it effectively would likely require equipping both the Targeting Battery and Boosted Scanners to let you double-tap and gain a lock beyond range 3. It's very powerful, so naturally the drawback is that it's a drain on both your ship's energy supply as well as its available upgrade slots, not to mention a significant points investment.

I also think that the CR-90 can use turbolasers a little easier than other ships because it is designed to be a turbolaser carrier (in that you can get away without the scanners), much like how the Raider is designed to be an ordnance carrier. That's doesn't mean the CR-90 or the Raider *have* to be built those ways; it's just the design choices that help to differentiate the way that different epic ships play.