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DarkHorse

The Roles Have Been Freed

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I don't expect the game to last long enough to get replacement clan packs. New core, probably, but the LCG model isn't sustainable over many years unless we get a full 2nd edition, binning all the existing product.

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Why not keep the lcg model but only with the three latest cycles? That way cards rotate out quicjly amd the game stays fresh. Theres new design space constantly, old cards can be brought back if needed, and decks change constantly because cards rotate in and out. And theres fresh product always for people to keep buying, amd entry is cheap

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8 hours ago, Poi68 said:

I don't expect the game to last long enough to get replacement clan packs. New core, probably, but the LCG model isn't sustainable over many years unless we get a full 2nd edition, binning all the existing product.

We got the first one, the Phoenix pack, last Spring. I think we could easily see a new one by 2022, 4 years after release. Even as soon as 3 years. And there is no reason to think the game couldn't last another 2 and a half years.

Netrunner lasted for 5 years, and was on an upswing once Rotation and Core 2.0 happened. At least until the Licensing issues kicked. And they had a much less aggressive Rotation schedule with the 5-6/6-7 most recent Cycles. Can't remember exactly how many.

2 hours ago, RafaelNN said:

Why not keep the lcg model but only with the three latest cycles? That way cards rotate out quicjly amd the game stays fresh. Theres new design space constantly, old cards can be brought back if needed, and decks change constantly because cards rotate in and out. And theres fresh product always for people to keep buying, amd entry is cheap

That is what they are doing, sort of. They only have the 3-4 most recent cycles, the most recent Core Set, and the most recent Clan packs. Plus those deluxe boxes.

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Then its only a matter of reaching the first point of rotation. After that each new cycle will rotate the oldest one out. If we get two cycles a year, or even one, cards will rotate relatively quickly

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6 hours ago, RafaelNN said:

Then its only a matter of reaching the first point of rotation. After that each new cycle will rotate the oldest one out. If we get two cycles a year, or even one, cards will rotate relatively quickly

They rotate out the oldest 2.
When we reach cycle 5 we rotate out 1 and 2

Cycle 7 will rotate out 3 and 4.
So about 1 rotation a year.

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8 hours ago, Radix2309 said:

They rotate out the oldest 2.
When we reach cycle 5 we rotate out 1 and 2

Cycle 7 will rotate out 3 and 4.
So about 1 rotation a year.

I'm expecting it will be a little over a year between each rotation (probably something like every 16-18 months.)

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There were rotation schedules before for l5r and there still are for many games. L5r’s was basically every 2 years. While yes, it started and was needed more for balance, it became a mainstay. It would be really easy to have a two year rotation in which a new base set describing the current storyline base and the cards relevant to the base.

The distribution of older product was 1 special set a year one “expansion” every 3-4 months depending on the when. That matches up pretty well with cycles. If anything you could plausibly spread a cycle distribution. See below.

2 Year Rotation

7 clan packs (75/3;78) (546)

2 Premium Set (234) (468)

2 6 pack Expansion Cycles (~22/6) (264)

1 Story Core Set. (239)

1517 total per cycle (22 sets)

You can release store cores at fencing in August and premiums in Jan/Feb. you keep the an extra premium set which puts the environment at basically 2000 cards and rotate to most recent three premiums/most recent clan pack/two most recent cycles/most recent core. Skip a month after premium and core set since they are the largest individual card changes.

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3 hours ago, Strange1 said:

There were rotation schedules before for l5r and there still are for many games. L5r’s was basically every 2 years. While yes, it started and was needed more for balance, it became a mainstay. It would be really easy to have a two year rotation in which a new base set describing the current storyline base and the cards relevant to the base.

The distribution of older product was 1 special set a year one “expansion” every 3-4 months depending on the when. That matches up pretty well with cycles. If anything you could plausibly spread a cycle distribution. See below.

2 Year Rotation

7 clan packs (75/3;78) (546)

2 Premium Set (234) (468)

2 6 pack Expansion Cycles (~22/6) (264)

1 Story Core Set. (239)

1517 total per cycle (22 sets)

You can release store cores at fencing in August and premiums in Jan/Feb. you keep the an extra premium set which puts the environment at basically 2000 cards and rotate to most recent three premiums/most recent clan pack/two most recent cycles/most recent core. Skip a month after premium and core set since they are the largest individual card changes.

Your numbers are slightly off as clan pack are only 28 unique cards normally with 25 in copies of 3 and the Stronghold, Province and Support cards being 1 of cards (with Crab being the outlier as they had 6 1 of Holdings in place of 2 normal card slots for 32 unique cards).  Cycles If we go based on the current cycle where they've gone to 1 copy of Provinces and 1 of cards in the packs as well should be up to 130 cards. 

So your 2 year rotation (not counting the role cards) would look more like:

Core 239 cards

7 Clan Pack (28 x 7= 189 Cards)

2 6 pack Expansion Cycles (130 x 2 = 260 Cards)

2 Deluxe Boxes (2 x 82 = 164 Cards).

Gives us a card pool of 852 cards per two year cycle.  

Given we know that they have said that rotation will include old Clan packs rotating out when a new one releases I don't know that we need to do a full new one every year and better may be to go with planning on 3 Cycles every 2 years, 1-2 deluxe boxes and 2 - 4 Clan packs

Still gives you 21-24 releases every two years.  We have  more stable "core" set as re-releasing it every two years actually does more to probably hurt retention then help it in this case and your stable card pool will be between 852 - 1276 cards (assuming we have 2-4 cycles active at a time and they limit the pool to the 4 most recent Deluxe boxes).

Personally I hope they alter rotation slightly as I'd rather see cycles rotating at the start of the even cycles instead of the odd ones just to keep the card pool a little bigger (so its 3 - 5 cycles instead of 2 - 4

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Sorry 25x3 = 75 +3 was the 78. The premium expansion numbers are from there product pages so 234 should be closing though possible 3 copies of and the ~22 per pack again was from looking at the packs regardless even still a ~1200 to ~1500 card pool. That is still more aggressive than what we have written but I think it would keep everything workable.

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I would say a Core every 3-4 years would be solid. And release the Clan packs so a Clan doesn't get more than 1 between cores.

I agree on rotation with 3 full cycles remaining. Then just do the 2-4 most recent Premiums with them being an annual thing.

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