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Jedirev

Saber Throw with mixed colour pools

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How should Saber Throw work with Obiwan? 
1) 1 red, 1 black, 1 white
2) 2 red, 1 black

We've played the former, but starting to wonder if "half your dice" should work like Weapon Disrupted, where half is modified as "(of any colour, rounded up)".  Saber Throw card lacks the text "of any colour".

Edited by Jedirev

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6 minutes ago, Captain Pachu said:

You get to choose which of your dice you use when you roll half of them so the 2 red and 1 black is allowed, though 1 black and 2 whites is good for a challenge.

Chapter and verse for that?

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50 minutes ago, Jedirev said:

Chapter and verse for that?

It's not in the RRG. You can either trust everyone who's sent in and got an email response from the game's designer, or you can send your own email. I have argued that Weapons Disrupted shows a clear guide for how halving dice pools is supposed to work in Legion, but others have argued that it being clearly mentioned only there shows that it's intended to be the only instance of dice being halved that way. Frankly, I'm shocked they haven't added anything to the official rules clarification thread stickied at the top of the Rules forum regarding it.

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1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

It's not in the RRG. You can either trust everyone who's sent in and got an email response from the game's designer, or you can send your own email. I have argued that Weapons Disrupted shows a clear guide for how halving dice pools is supposed to work in Legion, but others have argued that it being clearly mentioned only there shows that it's intended to be the only instance of dice being halved that way. Frankly, I'm shocked they haven't added anything to the official rules clarification thread stickied at the top of the Rules forum regarding it.

That's my real point for asking it here.  I'd like some clarity in the official rulings thread - which was the first place I went after scouring the RRG. 

I can see both sides you mention - as I said, we've played it one way, but there is a "rules as intended" case for the other. 😃

How does it work for things to get into the rulings thread?

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Why wouldn't you be able to choose which dice to keep? the card only say "Half that weapon's dice" without ever mentioning color or anything else.

So you have 6 dice, half is 3 and that's it. As there is no further restriction you remove whichever 3 dice you see fit.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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2 hours ago, Jedirev said:

That's my real point for asking it here.  I'd like some clarity in the official rulings thread - which was the first place I went after scouring the RRG. 

I can see both sides you mention - as I said, we've played it one way, but there is a "rules as intended" case for the other. 😃

How does it work for things to get into the rulings thread?

There is no process. I assume if people make enough of a fuss they will notice. I assume they've gotten tons of emails about it. I think we're due for an RRG update sometime soon so maybe they are watiing for that.

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50 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Why wouldn't you be able to choose which dice to keep? the card only say "Half that weapon's dice" without ever mentioning color or anything else.

So you have 6 dice, half is 3 and that's it. As there is no further restriction you remove whichever 3 dice you see fit.

Well, because we haven't. Half of 2 red is 1 red. Half of 2 black is 1 black. Half of 2 white is 1 white. So half of a pool of 2 of each is 1 of each. 

Surely you can see why I'm asking? 

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26 minutes ago, Jedirev said:

Well, because we haven't. Half of 2 red is 1 red. Half of 2 black is 1 black. Half of 2 white is 1 white. So half of a pool of 2 of each is 1 of each. 

Surely you can see why I'm asking? 

Sorry, but I can't. Saber Throw says: "Choose one of your melee weapons. Perform a ranged attack with that weapon against an enemy unit at range 1-2, using half of that weapon's dice, rounded up. This is treated as an attack action."

It just say "half of that weapon's dice", it doesn't mention color anywhere, then there is no restriction there.
You have 6 dice but can use only half, so you remove 3 dice. That's the only thing the card is telling you to do. Which 3 you remove doesn't matter to the card because you're using half of that weapon's dice as instructed, the only thing that matters is the number of dice, not its color.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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7 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Sorry, but I can't. Saber Throw says: "Choose one of your melee weapons. Perform a ranged attack with that weapon against an enemy unit at range 1-2, using half of that weapon's dice, rounded up. This is treated as an attack action."

It just say "half of that weapon's dice", it doesn't mention color anywhere, then there is no restriction there.
You have 6 dice but can use only half, so you remove 3 dice. That's the only thing the card is telling you to do. Which 3 you remove doesn't matter to the card because you're using half of that weapon's dice as instructed.

This. Stop making rules questions harder than they are. 6 dice down to 3. 5 dice down to 3. Whatever you have available you can choose to use.

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Another example of why you wouldn't half each color individually: what if you had 3 Red/3 Black? Would you get half-round-up for each color, for 4 dice total? Of course not. Take your weapons total dice, remove half of them. 

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1 hour ago, Cleto0 said:

This. Stop making rules questions harder than they are. 6 dice down to 3. 5 dice down to 3. Whatever you have available you can choose to use.

I find your comment unnecessarily hostile. 

We've got, at the moment three instances where Saber Throw comes into play. Two of them (Vader and Luke) are easy as there's only one dice colour. The third has 2 dice of each colour.  Apparently there are plenty of others who have emailed FFG with the same question, so much that one commenter here wonders why it hasn't been addressed in an RRG updates, or the Rules Questions thread. 

Take the aggression and park it.  It's a legit question.  It's only a game. 😃 🤘

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7 hours ago, Jedirev said:

How should Saber Throw work with Obiwan? 
1) 1 red, 1 black, 1 white
2) 2 red, 1 black

We've played the former, but starting to wonder if "half your dice" should work like Weapon Disrupted, where half is modified as "(of any colour, rounded up)".  Saber Throw card lacks the text "of any colour".

There's an expression that I first heard when I started playing Armada a few years ago that I think is very helpful when interpreting rules queries: "Do what the rules say, and don't do what the rules don't say."

Saber Throw says to use half the dice without making any mention of color. It only references dice count, so that's the only thing that matters. Take the count of 6 and reduce it to 3 and you've met the requirements of the card.

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11 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

There's an expression that I first heard when I started playing Armada a few years ago that I think is very helpful when interpreting rules queries: "Do what the rules say, and don't do what the rules don't say."

Saber Throw says to use half the dice without making any mention of color. It only references dice count, so that's the only thing that matters. Take the count of 6 and reduce it to 3 and you've met the requirements of the card.

That's actually hugely helpful. Thanks.

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On 11/8/2019 at 8:00 AM, Jedirev said:

I find your comment unnecessarily hostile. 

We've got, at the moment three instances where Saber Throw comes into play. Two of them (Vader and Luke) are easy as there's only one dice colour. The third has 2 dice of each colour.  Apparently there are plenty of others who have emailed FFG with the same question, so much that one commenter here wonders why it hasn't been addressed in an RRG updates, or the Rules Questions thread. 

Take the aggression and park it.  It's a legit question.  It's only a game. 😃 🤘

The hostility of your response at being unnecessarily hostile has been noted.  Ha.  😃 🤘

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6 minutes ago, DarthDanMan said:

Somewhat related question, but would tenacity increase the dice in a saber throw if you have a wound?

No, Tenacity only works "While performing a melee attack" as stated in the card. Saber Throw is a ranged attack, just only using a melee weapon.

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