*Spoilers* Return to Carcosa rules query

[General Zodd 459]

I have a rules query for those of a lawyerly bent, and wanted to check I’m not missing anything obvious before I send this anywhere more official.

The question regards an encounter card from Return to The Last King from the Return to the Path to Carcosa set. If you don’t wish to be spoiled, read no further!!!

 

 

 

Sure you want to continue? Good. So, La Comtesse is an enemy with the following effect;

Forced - After you defeat La Comtesse: Place her in your hand, as a hidden card. While La Comtesse is in your hand, she gains: "La Comtesse counts as 4 cards instead of 1 while checking your hand size. Forced - After you discard 1 or more cards from your hand during the upkeep phase: Take 1 horror."

My questions relates to how this interacts with Patricia Hathaway. Although it’s not a treachery, it is Hidden, and the rules for Hidden say that it cannot be discarded in any way apart from that detailed on the card itself. So, to my reading, there is no way to remove La Comtesse from your hand.

Here comes Patricia, if she were to defeat La Comtesse, her investigator ability means she has to discard her entire hand (except La Comtesse), take a horror, only be able to draw one card to make her up to her hand maximum of 5, and then have to do it all over again the next round. Does this mean that if Patricia is ever foolish enough to kill La Comtesse, she will be forced to take a horror every single round until the game ends or she goes insane?

Now, I was fortunate that this card didn’t come out early enough for me to have to deal with her at all, but it was an intriguing ‘what if?’ Have I got this right?

[Allonym 954]

Yes, that is what this means. And yes, there's no way for her to get rid of La Comtesse and her draw will be completely ruined. If she then gets her signature weakness (or another Hidden card), she will draw 0 cards every upkeep phase, but on the upside probably won't have anything to discard.

So the solution is essentially either get another hidden card in hand so that you don't get any horror at all (but also get no card draw for the rest of the game aside from using actions or card effects to draw cards), rush to win the game, pack Peter Sylvestre, or, as you say, don't let Patrice kill her.

It's a pretty brutal situation.

[DarkFate 70]

So what happens if she gets yet another hidden card?

[Redclock 10]

I believe the order for Patrice's Upkeep Phase is:

1. Reset Actions

2. Ready all exhausted cards.

3. Discard all non-weakness cards in hand and draw until you have five cards in hand and gain a resource.

4. Check hand size. (It is only here where she counts as 4 cards)

It appears you would take a horror from discarding your hand of cards (assuming you had any left) and then take a second horror from discarding when checking hand size as they are separate steps during the upkeep phase and La Comtesse's forced ability is not limited to once per upkeep phase.

Look's like it's double punishment of deck mill and horror if poor Patrice ever kills La Comtesse.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Redclock

[Allonym 954]

3 hours ago, Redclock said:

I believe the order for Patrice's Upkeep Phase is:

1. Reset Actions

2. Ready all exhausted cards.

3. Discard all non-weakness cards in hand and draw until you have five cards in hand and gain a resource.

4. Check hand size. (It is only here where she counts as 4 cards)

It appears you would take a horror from discarding your hand of cards (assuming you had any left) and then take a second horror from discarding when checking hand size as they are separate steps during the upkeep phase and La Comtesse's forced ability is not limited to once per upkeep phase.

Look's like it's double punishment of deck mill and horror if poor Patrice ever kills La Comtesse.

Ah yes, that's correct, her ability is simply "draw until you have 5 cards" and La Comtesse won't directly interact with that. So she won't be able to avoid the horror unless she has 5 Hidden cards in hand (not impossible, but very difficult).

Either way, the short answer is that Patrice really, really doesn't want to kill La Comtesse.

[rsdockery 537]

On the plus side, it's just one card in one scenario, and failing Curtain Call isn't even that bad. Conversely, Beyond the Veil is three cards in four scenarios. 

[Carthoris 248]

Whoa. I have been thinking about taking Patrice into Return to the Path to Carcosa (not solo, though). I'll take this thread as a serious warning.

[Soakman 987]

We were lucky enough to never have her show up. She’s certainly a fun addition. Patrice gets into scraps often that you never even consider haha. Just saw a playthrough of my custom designed signature scenario Jenny’s Choice where Patrice was in a very bad place thanks to an encounter combo with an unfortunately timed The Tower.

Relying on commits and not being able to do it is such a bad place to be.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Soakman

[Mimi61 456]

My takeaway? Never let Patrice anywhere near the Arkham Theater! 

[Soakman 987]

She was meant for a bigger stage anyway! When Ancient Ones can’t stop watching you perform, you know you’ve Made it. 🤣

[Mimi61 456]

Absolutely!  Now we know what the Yithians are really observing. Plus they wouldn’t let cats in the theater anyway and I’m pretty sure those kitties would have the stranger’s number right off the bat! A lot of hissing and scratching would ensue.  He would have to be re-named “The Man in the Tattered Mask”. 

7 hours ago, Soakman said:

She was meant for a bigger stage anyway! When Ancient Ones can’t stop watching you perform, you know you’ve Made it. 🤣

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Mimi61