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toffolone

Immune : pierce and guardian

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The immune pierce rule says

While a unit with the immune: pierce keyword is defending, 
the attacker cannot use the pierce keyword to cancel block (󲉣) 
results on defense dice rolled by the defender.
• The pierce keyword cannot be used on defense dice rolled 
by a unit with the immune: pierce keyword using the 
guardian keyword.
» The pierce keyword can be used on defense dice rolled 
by a unit with the immune: pierce keyword using 
the guardian keyword during an attack in which the 
defender has the immune: pierce keyword

As I read it, • and 》contradicts each other. 

Any thoughts?

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They're not contradicting but it's a weird ruling, at least in my opinion.

Apparently if the unit using Guardian has Immune: Pierce, it can only use it if the original defender doesn't have Immune: Pierce

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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3 hours ago, toffolone said:

The immune pierce rule says

While a unit with the immune: pierce keyword is defending, 
the attacker cannot use the pierce keyword to cancel block (󲉣) 
results on defense dice rolled by the defender.
• The pierce keyword cannot be used on defense dice rolled 
by a unit with the immune: pierce keyword using the 
guardian keyword.
» The pierce keyword can be used on defense dice rolled 
by a unit with the immune: pierce keyword using 
the guardian keyword during an attack in which the 
defender has the immune: pierce keyword

As I read it, • and 》contradicts each other. 

Any thoughts?

Yes there's a contradiction, and it's the result of a typo. There was apparently a subtle change in the wording between RRG version 1.5.0 and version 1.5.1 which introduced the typo in that second bullet point you posted.

@YuriPanzer, any chance you could share that email?

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Just had a quick look and afaik the only combination where this matters is Royal Guards with the electric staff defending Vader or the Emperor?
So thematically it's accurate that they give their lives without hesitation :D

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4 hours ago, R4Pi3R said:

Just had a quick look and afaik the only combination where this matters is Royal Guards with the electric staff defending Vader or the Emperor?
So thematically it's accurate that they give their lives without hesitation :D

Haha. Well, Royal Guards only get Immune: Pierce while defending a melee attack. So I don’t think there are any cases where this actually matters right now.

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Essentially if you are hit by wounds and the attacker has pierce and the defender has immune pierce and a guardian unit is taking the wounds rule 1 is saying that pierce cannot be used on the defenders results)

Example Vader with esteemed commander gets hit by fleet troopers for two wounds with pierce 1 can choose to guardian off 1 hit to a nearby stormtrooper unit. pierce cannot be used to cause that wound to Vader and the stormtrooper unit rolls it's defense dice to mitigate the wound guardianed off, however pierce allows this wound to go through to the trooper unit regardless of the die result as pierce gets to remove one of the Guardian units block results (not the defender 's)

Rule 2

If the Defender and the Guardian unit both have immune:pierce the Guardian unit does not benefit from the immunity to pierce

the two rules are not mutually exclusive . The first says an attack with pierce cannot choose to remove a block from a defenders (only  the Guardian 's roll can have a block removed by pierce in this case) and the second rule is saying that if both units are immune to pierce then only the defender can benefit from that (not the Guardian unit)

 

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Sorry dudes! Got an answer from Luke Eddy about this:

 

Quote

It seems you’ve found a typo! You are correct, as written that makes no sense. The intended meaning is that pierce can be used on guardian dice rolled by a unit without immune: pierce, even if the defending unit has immune: pierce.

 

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2 hours ago, YuriPanzer said:

Sorry dudes! Got an answer from Luke Eddy about this:

 

 

It's not technically incorrect but badly written the rule is worded such that if a unit with immune pierce guardians off wounds-  pierce can work on the Guardian unit (but not on any wounds to the original defender)(rule 1)

The second rule could be the typo as it says the Guardian cannot benefit from immune:pierce even if both units have it. I'd like to see the errata, as to the OP though the rules weren't mutually exclusive, as the first rule was talking about the defender and the second rule was talking about the Guardian.

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50 minutes ago, syrath said:

The second rule could be the typo as it says the Guardian cannot benefit from immune:pierce even if both units have it. I'd like to see the errata, as to the OP though the rules weren't mutually exclusive, as the first rule was talking about the defender and the second rule was talking about the Guardian.

The second rule is 100% where the typo is. “With” is supposed to be “without”.

You can confirm by looking at RRG 1.5.0. They changed the wording in 1.5.1, apparently to cover an edge case (which doesn’t actually exist yet), which introduced a typo.

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18 hours ago, nashjaee said:

The second rule is 100% where the typo is. “With” is supposed to be “without”.

You can confirm by looking at RRG 1.5.0. They changed the wording in 1.5.1, apparently to cover an edge case (which doesn’t actually exist yet), which introduced a typo.

Thanks for the clarification

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