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The Cornered Lion - New L5R Fiction Story Discussion

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Sotorii might actually qualify for the insanity defense under the irresistible impulse doctrine. Which is to say, the dude is genuinely certifiable. This isn't a naughty boy with a temper. He's got some kind of problem. And not wishing to cast aspersions at real life mental health issues, I'd be more comfortable with the notion that he was demonically influenced rather than generically "crazy" (and blaming murder, even fictional murder, on autism is probably something we ought to avoid).

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16 hours ago, Manchu said:

This isn't a naughty boy with a temper. He's got some kind of problem.

Indeed. We know of at least four incidents I can think of which would have or did result in him killing someone left to his own devices when he lost it:

  • Unnamed Peasant - Mentioned in both In The Palace of the Emerald Champion and Children of Bushido but not seen directly*.
  • Bayushi Dairu - Children of Bushido
  • Hantei Jodan - The Last Stone Played
  • Hantei Daisetsu - Red Petals Scatter**

* Ironically contributing in no small part to his Sensei's death as Satsume's assassin joined the Kolat in disgust after seeing this.

**it's worth noting Daisetsu has a VERY similar experience in Red Petals Scatter and would probably have killed Sotorii if it hadn't been for Shahai, and seemed monumentally confused after coming to his senses

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

**it's worth noting Daisetsu has a VERY similar experience in Red Petals Scatter and would probably have killed Sotorii if it hadn't been for Shahai, and seemed monumentally confused after coming to his senses

That was the point where I was suspicious.  Prior to that the idea that Fu Leng or someone else was influencing Sotorii was around and being talked about, but I wasn't really onboard until we saw potentially another perspective on that influence.

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1 hour ago, phillos said:

That was the point where I was suspicious.  Prior to that the idea that Fu Leng or someone else was influencing Sotorii was around and being talked about, but I wasn't really onboard until we saw potentially another perspective on that influence.

I still don't buy it personally, Daisetsu flying into a rage at the brother who he has always resented for his "privileged" position when confronted with the news that said brother has just murdered their father is pretty reasonable and doesn't require outside supernatural influences to explain it away.

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48 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

I still don't buy it personally, Daisetsu flying into a rage at the brother who he has always resented for his "privileged" position when confronted with the news that said brother has just murdered their father is pretty reasonable and doesn't require outside supernatural influences to explain it away.

It doesn't, but two different people shows a trend that is separate from the original culprit.

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On 11/4/2019 at 1:17 PM, Manchu said:

Obscuring Sotorii's agency in the passage in question could simply convey his lack of control over his own behavior, rather than that the will of some other being had overcome his own. But there is a larger context to allow for speculation about him being possessed. My theory is, the suijindai is not a "historical" process but is due to the toxicity of supernatural evil.* I don't think that Sotorii is full-on possessed by Fu Leng (just yet) but rather that his lack of, shall we say, ethical introspection has left him vulnerable to corrupting influences.

*The Carpenter Wall is clearly not a 100% effective containment system of the radioactive evil of the Shadowlands.

First of all, the suijindai isn't real. It's just something a bunch of religious fanatics came up with to make themselves feel special by having their time be the time of crisis. In reality every era has it's trials and the world is actually no worse off than it ever was.

Second, the containment system works perfectly well. It's not our fault if some people snuck some nuclear scrolls in before it was built and some of them ended up in the hands of some turkeys that should really know better than to open them, but will anyway.

Third, is it really possession? Isn't he a reincarnation that doesn't yet have full access to his previous life's memories and god powers since they're sealed in aforementioned scrolls? I mean we don't know much about Fu Leng before he became evil. Maybe he would have eventually stabbed the Moon to death if he hadn't gotten eaten first.

Edited by shineyorkboy

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15 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

First if all, the suijindai isn't real.

Keep telling yourself that :D

15 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Second, the containment system works perfectly well.

Again, keep telling yourself that 😢

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23 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Second, the containment system works perfectly well. It's not our fault if some people snuck some nuclear scrolls in before it was built and some of them ended up in the hands of some turkeys that should really know better than to open them, but will anyway.

I feel the need to point out that at least one scroll has already been opened, with hints that another one has been.

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8 hours ago, Manchu said:

Keep telling yourself that

Ah, I see. Lions trying to obscure their own responsibility for the state of the world by blaming some abstract supernatural phenomenon. Gotcha.

40 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I feel the need to point out that at least one scroll has already been opened, with hints that another one has been.

Wait, what? When did that get revealed?

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4 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

Wait, what? When did that get revealed?

In the Shadowlands book for the RPG.  The Obsidian Flower aka The Demon Bride of Fu Leng, was once a Crane lady.  She stole a Black Scroll, ran off to the Shadowlands and used the power within to transform herself into her new form.

In other news, one of the recurring villains in the RPG apparently found an ancient scroll of great power and learned a spell from it that allowed her to curse her brother with a wasting disease.  That's the might.

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2 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Ah, I see. Lions trying to obscure their own responsibility for the state of the world by blaming some abstract supernatural phenomenon. Gotcha.

Just a reminder of my reaction to Lion dishonor:

Matsu Tsuko’s actions here are the second blackest stain on the Empire after the abomination committed by Sotorii.

Seppuku is too good for her. Execution is too good for her. Her co-conspirators are craven dogs, shameless beasts disguised a samurai. The Lion Clan is a shambles. One wonders if there is any honor left in the Clan at all.

Truly, this is the suijindai.

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On 11/8/2019 at 12:54 AM, shineyorkboy said:

First if all, the suijindai isn't real.

I'm fairly sure that the Kuni thinks otherwise. 

5 hours ago, Manchu said:

Matsu Tsuko’s actions here are the second blackest stain on the Empire after the abomination committed by Sotorii.

You know, I think Tsuko is kinda honorable in a way that she did a Zeroth Law Rebellion that is very Bushido but her reasoning behind it is kinda dumb. Not dishonorable, mind you, just dumb. 

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22 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

In the Shadowlands book for the RPG.  The Obsidian Flower aka The Demon Bride of Fu Leng, was once a Crane lady.  She stole a Black Scroll, ran off to the Shadowlands and used the power within to transform herself into her new form.

In other news, one of the recurring villains in the RPG apparently found an ancient scroll of great power and learned a spell from it that allowed her to curse her brother with a wasting disease.  That's the might.

*eye twitch*

That seems like a rather plot critical piece of information to hide behind a paywall, but fine.

19 hours ago, Manchu said:

Just a reminder of my reaction to Lion dishonor:

Matsu Tsuko’s actions here are the second blackest stain on the Empire after the abomination committed by Sotorii.

Seppuku is too good for her. Execution is too good for her. Her co-conspirators are craven dogs, shameless beasts disguised a samurai. The Lion Clan is a shambles. One wonders if there is any honor left in the Clan at all.

Truly, this is the suijindai.

By saying 'Truly, this is the suijindai.' you imply that if it weren't for this supernatural force Tsuko and her generals wouldn't have behaved badly. I fail to see how this does anything other than reinforce my assertion that you are merely using the suijindai as a convenient political scapegoat.

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2 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

By saying 'Truly, this is the suijindai.' you imply that if it weren't for this supernatural force

Who says the Suijindai is a supernatural force? It can just as easily be a descriptive term: virtue is in decline; therefore this is the Age of Declining Virtue. In fact, the PLS believe samurai are the cause, not some outside entity.

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7 hours ago, Kinzen said:

Who says the Suijindai is a supernatural force? It can just as easily be a descriptive term: virtue is in decline; therefore this is the Age of Declining Virtue. In fact, the PLS believe samurai are the cause, not some outside entity.

"Truly, this is the suijindai."

Translation: We live in the darkest timeline.

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On 11/9/2019 at 4:03 AM, Manchu said:

Just a reminder of my reaction to Lion dishonor:

Matsu Tsuko’s actions here are the second blackest stain on the Empire after the abomination committed by Sotorii.

Seppuku is too good for her. Execution is too good for her. Her co-conspirators are craven dogs, shameless beasts disguised a samurai. The Lion Clan is a shambles. One wonders if there is any honor left in the Clan at all.

Truly, this is the suijindai.

You must be fun at parties.

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10 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

*eye twitch*

That seems like a rather plot critical piece of information to hide behind a paywall, but fine.

I don't believe that this is plot critical at the moment.  Currently the plot is about the death of the Emperor and the fallout from that.  The status of the Black Scrolls is not yet relevant.  When they do become relevant, I expect there to be a bit of exposition letting us know the current status of all of them (probably from Junzo).  Currently it's a bit of trivia from several hundred years ago, and an ongoing plot in the RPG.

As a side note (to a side note, sorry) I feel that the RPG is being integrated into the ongoing plot much more in this continuity but even in the old one there was plot critical information that came out in RPG books, such as the identities of the Kolat Masters.

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17 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Yori will use whatever excuses he wants to justify the actions he takes.

They aren't excuses. "Excuses" implies an attempt to lessen blame. They are, rather, "explanations" at worst, because Yori doesn't believe any of the things he does are blame-worthy. They are simply the things that need to be done, and if others can't see that, well, that's because they don't have his insight or moral courage. As I've said before, he's the ultimate pragmatist.

(This intellectual arrogance is what makes Kuni Yori such a cool character to portray.)

Edited by DGLaderoute

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