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M12-L Kimogila Heavy Fighter

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1 hour ago, Wazat said:

Shooting an ally is useful when you have Cluster Missiles and the opponent is out of range 1-2, or you were out of range 3 when you needed to grab a lock.  Works even better with Munitions Failsafe so you don't hurt your buddy and you don't waste tokens.  This allows you to double-ping opponents in your bullseye even though you failed to get the cluster missile lock or range.

But otherwise you wouldn't want to shoot your ally -- it's far better to shoot one of the enemies instead, since if they're in your bullseye to get pinged by Torani's ability, they're also in your forward arc to be targeted with attacks.

(reminder that a bullseye arc only extends to range 3 for non-epic ships, so if the foe is outside range to shoot with your primary weapon, they're also outside of bullseye)

Mm, dunno. Duuuunno. Pretty sure Kulda's ability extends beyond R3 in bullseye. Anything in your bullseye receives 1 damage unless they spend a green token.

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9 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Mm, dunno. Duuuunno. Pretty sure Kulda's ability extends beyond R3 in bullseye. Anything in your bullseye receives 1 damage unless they spend a green token.

Bullseye arc is defined by the range ruler, thus Kulda is limited to ranges 0-3

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36 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Mm, dunno. Duuuunno. Pretty sure Kulda's ability extends beyond R3 in bullseye. Anything in your bullseye receives 1 damage unless they spend a green token.

Arcs are measured from the edge of the ship's base out to the outer end of range 3. An example is the ruling on Drea Renthal.

Also, from Arc in the Rules Reference:

An arc is an area formed between the lines created by extending hash marks or arc lines printed on a ship token to range 3

Edited by Hiemfire

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19 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Configuration, not title. While I understand the nomenclature holdover from 1st ed, configs now fill the place that nonlimited titles other than IG-2000 did. The config would need to drop the Torp and Astro slot and add a gunner and turret slot iirc to fit. Maybe lose Reload for a Crew slot too if you want to be a bit loose in the interpretation of what the passenger compartment carried.

Personally I feel that it needs a configuration to drop its 3-ATK primary to a 2-ATK primary for both a point reduction and so it can reasonably use ordnance for its reload action.  It's just such a shame that the ship in its current form has so many cool potential goodies that it never wants to use.

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4 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Anyone who says the Kimo has a bad dial is wrong.   It clearly has the best dial of any Medium based ship.  It even has a good dial for a Small based ship!   It has every single move in the speed 1-3 category, besides the turn around ones.   How is that a "bad" dial???

The 1 hard turns are red, no blue turns means that clearing stress will make you super predictable and easy to avoid, and a lack of fast straights for any sort of flanking. It's got a dial that pretty much limits it to "I joust and k-turn".

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12 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

The 1 hard turns are red, no blue turns means that clearing stress will make you super predictable and easy to avoid, and a lack of fast straights for any sort of flanking. It's got a dial that pretty much limits it to "I joust and k-turn".

Most ships in the game don't have a blue hard turn.  X-wings don't but I never hear anyone saying they have a rubbish dial.  

Also, if that is all you can think of doing when you don't have a blue hard turn, you must not have much of an imagination.  There are a lot of combos of turning and barrel rolling and such.  

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2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Most ships in the game don't have a blue hard turn.  X-wings don't but I never hear anyone saying they have a rubbish dial.  

Also, if that is all you can think of doing when you don't have a blue hard turn, you must not have much of an imagination.  There are a lot of combos of turning and barrel rolling and such.  

When it needs to clear stress it needs to bank 2 or go straight, that tends to remove it from the action, and probably necessitates a k-turn next turn, which leads to clearing stress... It's a terrible ship to fly when stressed, which leads us to the barrel roll, which is red. Yeah, you can turn and barrel roll, after which you're stressed and predictable and probably not getting shots next turn, and you're not modded this turn. Oh joy! This is a ship that gets forced to bump and/or disengage a lot. After the first engagement you're looking at using a k-turn to get any shooting done the next turn, unless the opponent is spread out enough that you can disengage into another engagement. I don't lack imagination, I just get left with few options due to how the dial works, and how the board tends to look once there's an engagement.

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2 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

When it needs to clear stress it needs to bank 2 or go straight, that tends to remove it from the action, and probably necessitates a k-turn next turn, which leads to clearing stress... It's a terrible ship to fly when stressed, which leads us to the barrel roll, which is red. Yeah, you can turn and barrel roll, after which you're stressed and predictable and probably not getting shots next turn, and you're not modded this turn. Oh joy! This is a ship that gets forced to bump and/or disengage a lot. After the first engagement you're looking at using a k-turn to get any shooting done the next turn, unless the opponent is spread out enough that you can disengage into another engagement. I don't lack imagination, I just get left with few options due to how the dial works, and how the board tends to look once there's an engagement.

....and yet I don't hear anyone complaining about other ships so much with the exact issue.  How many ships really have a blue hard turn, anyways?

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I just checked.....Here is the list:

Rebels

  • A-wing

Imperials

  • V1
  • Tie Interceptor

Scum

  • Fang Fighter
  • Lancer Pursuit Craft

Resistance

  • A-wing

First Order

  • FO Tie Fighter
  • Tie Silencer

Republic

  • None

Separatists

  • Vulture Droid
  • Hyena Droid

 

So......that's not a lot of ships with Blue hard turns.   Every other ship in the game sucks, then?

Oh, you want to make it about Blue maneuvers?   First off, why?  You don't always have to.   Second, they have four moves.  Yeah, not the best, but it isn't bad.  

Edited by heychadwick

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Just now, heychadwick said:

....and yet I don't hear anyone complaining about other ships so much with the exact issue.  How many ships really have a blue hard turn, anyways?

What I'm saying is that the barrel roll and the 1 hard turn might as well not be on the dial, red = I'm not doing anything useful next turn. The k-turn is ok because it gives you enough distance that maybe you can bank into a shot next turn, the red turn just says "I'll skip combat next turn, and have no mods this turn." Same problem with the barrel roll, aside from the rare jockeying for position turns before engagement, it might as well not be there, as it's very rarely worth the stress, to the point where it's better to fly over an asteroid than to barrel roll to avoid it.

And while blue hard turns might not be so common, blue 1 banks are. The medium base hurts here too.

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4 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

What I'm saying is that the barrel roll and the 1 hard turn might as well not be on the dial, red = I'm not doing anything useful next turn. The k-turn is ok because it gives you enough distance that maybe you can bank into a shot next turn, the red turn just says "I'll skip combat next turn, and have no mods this turn." Same problem with the barrel roll, aside from the rare jockeying for position turns before engagement, it might as well not be there, as it's very rarely worth the stress, to the point where it's better to fly over an asteroid than to barrel roll to avoid it.

And while blue hard turns might not be so common, blue 1 banks are. The medium base hurts here too.

Everything is situational.  

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While I don't think the Kimo's dial is terrible, I definitely wouldn't describe it as the best either, especially taking the rest of the ship into account.

The main problem with the Kimo's dial is that it only has a forward attack arc (and really wants people to be in the middle of that arc), but it has trouble turning around in a confined space, or adjusting the position of its arc. The 4K can often be blocked by a ship or rock and is very predictable, and with the medium base 2-turns or the blue 2-bank will often move you a bit further than you'd really like. I actually think the dial would be greatly improved if it had either Tallon rolls or s-loops. That said, I think the Kimo's dial does kind of suit the flavour of the ship - it makes it feel quite heavy and bulky, in contrast to e.g. the more maneuverable IGs or the Firespray and its back-arc shenanigans.

Comparing to small ships, I think slow maneuvers in general tend to be more important for non-turreted medium and large ships than small ships, because the size of the base means you move further with all maneuvers, so the red 1-turn and white 1-banks hurt the Kimo more than they would something like an X-Wing. Also, X-Wings have Tallons, white barrel rolls, and S-Foils. In 1.0, they didn't have all that, and people did complain that they had a poor dial compared to ships from later waves.

It is a shame that nobody seems to use ordnance much on Kimos, given that it seems designed to be an ordnance carrier. I wouldn't mind seeing some pilots or config that enable easier ordnance use, especially given the small number of pilots it currently has.

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18 hours ago, Wazat said:

But otherwise you wouldn't want to shoot your ally -- it's far better to shoot one of the enemies instead, since if they're in your bullseye to get pinged by Torani's ability, they're also in your forward arc to be targeted with attacks.

What if you have a double DMS Khiraxz parked very nicely :D

 

Other points. Dial/med base/front firing arc in combination make the ship clunky, not any of those things in isolation. The dial comparisons are kind of pointless.

The red 1 hard is massively useful. When you're flying something that has to commit to a direction. Being able to scootch it round an obstacle and pick up lane through the field that you otherwise couldn't, is a clutch move, stress on not.

A blue 1 bank would go a long way in helping out stress removal. That's the move it's missing, otherwise the dial itself is fine.

 

Edited by Cuz05

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6 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

What if you have a double DMS Khiraxz parked very nicely :D

 

Other points. Dial/med base/front firing arc in combination make the ship clunky, not any of those things in isolation. The dial comparisons are kind of pointless.

The red 1 hard is massively useful. When you're flying something that has to commit to a direction. Being able to scootch it round an obstacle and pick up lane through the field that you otherwise couldn't, is a clutch move, stress on not.

A blue 1 bank would go a long way in helping out stress removal. That's the move it's missing, otherwise the dial itself is fine.

 

DMS?

 

Yea, I feel the dial itself isn't the problem, it's the combined awkwardness of several factors.  As pointed out, ARCs have a much easier time thanks to the rear arc, crew+gunner+astro slots, etc.  And that red 1 turn has been clutch for me several times.  It's not the dial that bothers me and I like how clunky the ship is; rather, it's not priced properly and maybe not slotted well yet, and its options don't quite align the way they need to.

Still one of my favorite ships.  It just needs a bit of help, even if that means the meta shifting and softening a bit (I've done surprisingly well with the ship except against the top tournament fleets), or a new config (as proposed above, lower cost for -1 primary and maybe a beneficial effect when using munitions or reloading).

Edited by Wazat

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The kimogila has access to The astromech slot. But it all honesty, R3 is the only useful astromech for scum. And i wouldnt call it fantastic... (good for spceific situations). 

With better astromechs to choose from, i feel the kimogila would be a better ship. 

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3 hours ago, Fippo said:

The kimogila has access to The astromech slot. But it all honesty, R3 is the only useful astromech for scum. And i wouldnt call it fantastic... (good for spceific situations). 

With better astromechs to choose from, i feel the kimogila would be a better ship. 

If the R4 wasn't restricted to small ships, the Kimogila would be a better ship.

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The kimogila dial is solid. Bring it in on the side of your jousting block so you can bank in towards the action. Don't dive in to r1 too quickly, so you have at least two turns of shooting before you need to dive in. When you kturn, remember that you can self bump on later turns to slow your blue moves or keep arc.

The kimogila is like a mini YV-666. Push lots of damage into your opponent and force them to take on the kimogila. It's an excellent damage dealer and bullet sponge.

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