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Tharcas

Wing Rules Questions

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Now that the Epic Rule Reference is out I have some questions...

What really happens to an ionized wingmate?  It is clear, an ionized wingmate is forced to split from the wing.  a) Does the split happen immediately upon becoming ionized?  i.e. in the middle of engagement phase which would affect the wingmate's ability to take hits for the wingleader and any other benefits of being in the wing.  b) Does the ionized wingmate, which is not assigned a dial, perform a 2 straight maneuver and get a stress and no action or a regular ion maneuver?

What happens when a wing leader performs a reallocation action?  The wing leader is not prohibited from doing these actions that I noted.  For SLAM it is partly explained, but it also seems that those ships not split from the wing with SLAM would SLAM too (because they don't split).  So do the wingmates perform the SLAM action or not (i.e just ending up in formation)?  I ask because according to the rules the wingmates are not allowed to perform the SLAM action.  Next for boost or barrel roll what happens?  Do wingmates not capable of the action performed split?  If a wingmate is capable of the action, do they perform it or not.  Same as with SLAM, wingmates not split from the wing should end up in formation, but do they perform an action after movement or did they do the boost or barrel roll action?  It looks to me from the way rules read wingmates are activated and move after the wing leader has activated and performed actions.  Therefore the wingmates capable of the relocation action would simply move to their places in the formation and perform an action.  If that is that case, this is very powerful as the wingmates are effectively getting two actions.

What says the group?  More importantly, what says the FFG?

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Forced splitting appears to happen immediately when you become ionized, so if you get ionized in the Activation Phase before you activate, it seems you'd do the red two straight this turn, then a blue one straight next turn.  And you wouldn't be able to pull any more hits from your Wing Leader until you rejoined.

It seems intended that if you Boost, Roll, or otherwise reposition (with Ailerons or SLAM), the Wing moves with you.  It seems that the Wing Leader takes their entire turn first, then the rest of the Wing is just placed in formation, no matter what the leader actually did.

I'm very confused about Cloaking with Wings, though.  You can't stay in the Wing if you don't have the Cloak action, but at the same time it seems only the leader can and will be cloaked.  Which runs counter to what I thought the flavor of cloaking was in the first place - that you pop out somewhere the enemy doesn't expect because they couldn't see you maneuver.  Except if they can see the wing, that makes no sense.  And do they come with you when you decloak, or do they just magically fall into formation after you move even without being in formation beforehand?

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Bear in mind this is just the Rules Reference, which is intended to provide clarification to the primary rules document... and we haven’t seen that yet! So it’s probably not worth getting too hung up on it at this point, as all your questions may well be covered in the rules that come in the box!

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6 hours ago, Matanui3 said:

It seems intended that if you Boost, Roll, or otherwise reposition (with Ailerons or SLAM), the Wing moves with you.

Um, where are you getting that? From what im seeing, that isnt the case. 

 

After a wing leader performs a [SLAM] action, each of its wingmates without [SLAM] on its action bar splits from the wing (see Splitting), and each of its wingmates with [SLAM] on its action bar gains a disarm token.

I'm not seeing where the wing actually follows the leader in a SLAM, just that, those without it, break off after the wing leader performs a slam. 

 

Quote

Wingmates: After a wing leader has activated, each of its wingmates activates in ascending order according to its ID number

I'm still going over the document, so i may have missed it. If so, can you point it out in the reference?

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ok, i took a spinet from the same section, was hoping you'd point out the specific one, but i think i found it. 

It just seems rather dumb that performing either a slam, or a cloak, causes the wing to "split" yet they dont move, so it would be extremely easy to get them back in the wing at the end of the turn. Doesnt really feel that punishing. Sure, you loose the damage redirecting, but i see Wings as more of a benefit for movement than the damage redirect. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Um, where are you getting that? From what im seeing, that isnt the case. 

 

After a wing leader performs a [SLAM] action, each of its wingmates without [SLAM] on its action bar splits from the wing (see Splitting), and each of its wingmates with [SLAM] on its action bar gains a disarm token.

I'm not seeing where the wing actually follows the leader in a SLAM, just that, those without it, break off after the wing leader performs a slam. 

 

I'm still going over the document, so i may have missed it. If so, can you point it out in the reference?

I’m mostly going off of “FFG logic” where they don’t always manage to spell out what they mean.  Honestly, I’m not sure what to do on a SLAM if you don’t follow the leader and don’t split from the group strictly by RAW.

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28 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

I’m mostly going off of “FFG logic” where they don’t always manage to spell out what they mean.  Honestly, I’m not sure what to do on a SLAM if you don’t follow the leader and don’t split from the group strictly by RAW.

When the leader SLAMs, wingmates without SLAM split (which, by the way, will create problems for those ships). Wingmates with SLAM do not split from the wing, gain a disarm token, and take their positions around the wing leader normally.

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29 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

I’m mostly going off of “FFG logic” where they don’t always manage to spell out what they mean.  Honestly, I’m not sure what to do on a SLAM if you don’t follow the leader and don’t split from the group strictly by RAW.

I went back and watched their live stream and got this snippet which seems to confirm your interpenetration. 
 

 

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14 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Um, where are you getting that? From what im seeing, that isnt the case. 

I’m not getting that anywhere.  It’s not in there that I can see.  I’m just speculating so I can ask questions, because right now think they need asking.  It looks like the document is incomplete.  However, as another has pointed out this is just the supplement and not the rule book.  That said, I still think this supplement appears to be missing information that ought to be in a supplement.  I guess we shall see.

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6 hours ago, Tharcas said:

I’m not getting that anywhere.  It’s not in there that I can see.  I’m just speculating so I can ask questions, because right now think they need asking.  It looks like the document is incomplete.  However, as another has pointed out this is just the supplement and not the rule book.  That said, I still think this supplement appears to be missing information that ought to be in a supplement.  I guess we shall see.

It is in the document.

Page 5, Wing Activation.

The order is :

  • Wing leader activate
    • Wing leader move
    • Wing leader action
  • Wingmate Activate
    • Wingmate move (= is placed in formation)
    • Wingmate action

If the leader did a BR/boost as part of is action, the wingmates are simply positioned in formation after that.

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Yep.  I saw page 5 and if that is the case, this is a pretty powerful thing.  You are effectively allowing all the wing mates a free relocation action.  Not sure what effect on game balance that will have.

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1 minute ago, Tharcas said:

Yep.  I saw page 5 and if that is the case, this is a pretty powerful thing.  You are effectively allowing all the wing mates a free relocation action.  Not sure what effect on game balance that will have.

I think it's strong but it's also balanced out by the fact that the whole wing has to stick together, and also you can still plan on where a wing is going to be based on the leader's possible movements. The biggs effect still seems like the most powerful attribute of the wing mechanic to me

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1 hour ago, Maui. said:

I think it's strong but it's also balanced out by the fact that the whole wing has to stick together, and also you can still plan on where a wing is going to be based on the leader's possible movements. The biggs effect still seems like the most powerful attribute of the wing mechanic to me

Good point.  Also from the snippet of the FFG live stream above it looks like we are definitely in "follow the leader" situation here.  The TIE Fighters can follow the TIE Advanced even without boost!!  Whoa.  We will have to see how that game balance plays out!

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3 hours ago, Tharcas said:

Yep.  I saw page 5 and if that is the case, this is a pretty powerful thing.  You are effectively allowing all the wing mates a free relocation action.  Not sure what effect on game balance that will have.

I dont think its as powerful as you may think. You have to be very careful in your movements as to keep your wingmates together. Its far easier to run them over rocks, or hit other ships. It also means, the other ships in the wing Cant reposition if they want to stay in formation. 

I think Maui is right. At first glance it may seem strong, but i think in practice, it will be balanced out by the imposed limitations (if you want to keep everyone in formation). 

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On 10/31/2019 at 2:16 PM, Tharcas said:

Good point.  Also from the snippet of the FFG live stream above it looks like we are definitely in "follow the leader" situation here.  The TIE Fighters can follow the TIE Advanced even without boost!!  Whoa.  We will have to see how that game balance plays out!

Hey, when Vader says, "Come with me," you don't worry about minor objections like whether your craft is physically capable of doing so; you keep your mouth shut and you go with him, if you know what's good for you!

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