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Vulcan646

The Price of Failure - New L5R Fiction Story Discussion

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Sotorii absolutely does not want to retire to a monastery. He may have been moved by guilt in the moment to scrape together the fortitude to contemplate seppuku, but he has no internal desire towards self-improvement.  The second he saw an opportunity, I’m sure he bailed.  No planning, no forethought, just pure impulse. It’s his go-to move. 

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I think Kwannon and Tsuko teaming up under Sotorii isnt out of the question. They have disagreements, sure. But they are both ultimately loyal to the Emperor. And Tsuko's usurption is different in a way. Just by claiming dishonour and neglect by Toturi. Plus he isnt around to stop her. Meanwhile you have an alleged Scorpion coup to unseat the rightful emperor.

Siding with Sotorii means taking out the Scorpion, who are a mutual foe of the Lion and Crane. Victory means Toshi Ranbo back. Plus other possible territory. It means Crane taking back their place in court.

Scorpion and the Army of the Rising Tide are definitely allied. I dont expect the rest of Dragon to play as much a major role. Mitsu is a wildcard for Daisetsu.

The Crab, and by extension the Mantis, will likely fall in with Shoju. He gives them Jade, and the Mantis have room for expansion.

Kachiko and Hotaru are definite wildcards. The Phoenix as a whole are also undefined in the conflict.

Not sure on Unicorn. It is unclear which side of the Crane they will end up with.  But Shahai being a fugitive isnt good for their relationship with the Shoju block.

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56 minutes ago, Radix2309 said:

Kachiko and Hotaru are definite wildcards.

By default, Hotaru and Kuwanan will be on different sides- whatever her wishes, her role is going to be defined by her brother's opposition, at least for a while.

Kachiko... the interesting thing there is that whatever SHE believes... those who have followed her lead in the lead-up to this? Probably going to try to anticipate her wishes. And given her track record up to this point?

Ugh. They're gonna need a bigger Grove.

56 minutes ago, Radix2309 said:

The Phoenix as a whole are also undefined in the conflict.

The Master of Void is missing, the Master of Earth is prancing about the Crab lands, the elemental imbalance hasn't been mentioned in a while but is, no doubt, not going away. Kaede's marriage to Toturi being their chief tie to the Lion means they're unlikely to outright back the people who usurped his place. Things with the Unicorn are sour, the Crane are headed for outright civil war... with no Tamori/Agasha mess to sour relations with the Dragon, there may be some wiggle room there, and any regard for Toturi (which Tsukune, at the very least, has) coupled with the Dragon being an "acceptable" choice might land them Shoju's camp, at least initially. However, their overriding concern is the Elemental imbalance, and I can see their more conservative elements believing that setting Sotorii aside is going to further exacerbate the Empire's spiritual turmoil- and Shahai running off with Daisetsu is also likely to get their hackles up, since her presence in the capital is the result of the Seppun's decision to study, rather than ban meishodo.

I think Los Pollos Del Fuego are going to have as messy a time in the coming conflict as anyone.

56 minutes ago, Radix2309 said:

Not sure on Unicorn. It is unclear which side of the Crane they will end up with.  But Shahai being a fugitive isnt good for their relationship with the Shoju block.

As a whole, the Unicorn are on good terms with the Dragon and Crane (more or less), in an undeclared border war with the Lion (and with the Matsu and Ikoma having first kicked Toturi upstairs and then backed Tsuko outright, this particular tension seems likely to escalate rather than reverse), and not very happy with the Phoenix. The Crane Civil War may exacerbate their internal tensions, since which Crane do they back, if forced to choose?

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Kunawan really can't do anything properly, can he?

Yes, all right, the dragon didn't ride on the road going "look at us we're here" but if you are a scouting party, you scout. One of the thing you scout for is enemy forces who aren't making themselves obvious. Especially especially when you're on a mission as critical as the safety of the Emperor.

Because he can't even get that right; if Hantei Jodan is dead, and your position is that the edict is fake, Sotorii isn't the prince, he's the Emperor. Because (unlike Daisetsu) he's passed his gempukku and is a legal adult.

13 hours ago, Radix2309 said:

Phoenix seem like a massive wildcard.

If the fight shapes up in the vicinity of Kyotei, the Phoenix would come in on the Crane side if they come in at all, because Tsume no Doji Itsuyo is Shiba Itsuyo; a born and bred Phoenix Bushi married into the family for the express purpose of shoring up a military alliance.

The Lion have their own diplomatic hooks into the phoenix, but with Akodo (nee Isawa) Kaede (a) probably siding with her husband against the war and (b) going missing, she's not really an option and I think the Lion considering have pretty comprehensively urinated on their chances of using Ikoma (nee Asako) Akari as a sympathetic ear amongst the phoenix.

4 hours ago, Hydraxus said:

I wonder why? Cowardice would have seen him simply urge the horse to bolt, surely?

Depends if it was mindless flight or deliberately recognising an opportunity to escape. The fields which made the dragon hard to see probably wouldn't have hidden a figure on horseback; Sotorii may be arrogant, a bad swordsman, and have a very distorted worldview but there's no reason to believe he's stupid within the reality he understands.

Exactly how he's supposed to cope if he's now out on his own is a different matter.

5 hours ago, Manchu said:

Story where everyone fights everyone, including themselves.

Could a miniatures war game be in the works?

The Terrinoth one didn't last that long, and with the star wars licenses to churn money from I'd be surprised (pleasantly!) if they did, but I certainly wouldn't say no. As noted by @DarkHorse you could do something akin to Clan Wars using the Runewars Miniatures Game structure; one obvious advantage from a cost perspective is that 'basic ashigaru/bushi grunts' are pretty much universal so you don't actually need multiple miniature ranges until you get to commanders, banners, etc or elite units with recognisable armour and uniforms.

 

9 hours ago, Mangod said:

Hitomi doesn't strike me as the sort of person to not report that the convoy transporting the Emperor's firstborn son got attacked by the brother/nephew of the Crane Clan Champion and Imperial Chancellor respectively. I mean... there's no way to paint attacking- and murdering an Imperial Prince's bodyguards as a positive, is there?

Um..no. Not if you (a) lose and (b) leave witnesses there isn't.

10 hours ago, phillos said:

Then he got Niten schooled.

Indeed. Send your uncle if you want to win this particular fight, kid. You are not in Hitomi's league.

Not to put too fine a point on it, whilst there's a debate to be had over whether Doji Satsume was 'fair' on Hotaru and his wife or not (especially given his tenderness to Shizue) that doesn't mean she's not correct that he didn't put as much effort into the training of, or demand the same from, his son. (much like Prince Sotorii, for that matter)

He's come second place in both battles we've seen him fight in 'on camera', and the one other fight we know he had from the RPG was won primarily because he had the Kakita sword Omeka and his opponent was a pirate with a sword made by no-one in particular and the former went straight through the latter without slowing down.

 

It'll be interesting to see where Daidoji Uji ends up. Kunawan's right to be concerned; yes he marched on Kyuden Kakita but that's a crane city attacked without declaration of war. The Iron Crane Daimyo doesn't exactly need to wait for orders from Hotaru to be within his rights and obligations to march and kick the Lion out. More importantly, note that all Kunawan's soldiers were either Kakita or Ronin - if Daidoji Uji was really down with the plan of an ambush you'd have expected Iron Cranes - especially Daidoji Harriers -  amongst the force because covert warfare is basically their job.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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@Magnus Grendel

Personally, I’d rather a L5R minis game NOT be modeled on Rune Wars. But I can see how the hidden info element (it used order dials, similar to the maneuver dials in X-Wing) could fit the Rokugan theme.

Also people are ragging on Kuwanan but Hitomi also effed up — lost the prince! And apparently failed to give chase because the Lion should do it. Pretty slack even if she can wave around two swords at the same time.

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1 hour ago, Manchu said:

@Magnus Grendel

Personally, I’d rather a L5R minis game NOT be modeled on Rune Wars. But I can see how the hidden info element (it used order dials, similar to the maneuver dials in X-Wing) could fit the Rokugan theme.

Also people are ragging on Kuwanan but Hitomi also effed up — lost the prince! And apparently failed to give chase because the Lion should do it. Pretty slack even if she can wave around two swords at the same time.

On minis game I don't see it happening anytime soon just based on the amount of models that would be required to get things started.  Rune wars had what 4 factions that they never really had fully supported and for L5R you need 7.  What I would hope for, and have mentioned elsewhere, is something like Descent or Imperial Assault style game that has some antagonist models and "hero" models for the 7 clans that can serve double duty for RPG models and can include a skirmish mode that can be played splitting the contents of the box.  You can then expand that line slowly with clan themed encounter packs that add extra PC figs and clan specific units.  Once you have a solid base of figures for each clan you expand out to a more substantial game like Star Wars Legion.

The other possibility is adapting the CMON Song of Ice and Fire rules given that they are now being brought under the Asmodee umbrella.

As to losing the Prince, Hitomi does have a sort of excuse in that they were attacked and in the confusion the Prince made his escape.  No question its a screw up, but she has some extenuating circumstances to justify (and ample proof given the bodies Kuwanan left behind), plus she's already run afoul of Lion patrols once just getting to Otosan Uchi so may be gun shy about tweaking them a second time.

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Yes, I think a "dungeon crawler" is likely. Unfortunately, FFG likes to make those driven by apps.

But keep in mind that Legion did not grow out of Imp Assault. In fact, there were a lot of unhappy campers about Legion using a slightly different scale from Imp Assault. FFG might have learned a lesson there, I suppose.

Hitomi failed in this fiction as surely as Kuwanan did. Which one ends up being the bigger screw up depends on what happened to Sotorii. But I think Hitomi will ultimately be the real loser here. A year from now, we can look back on this and say, "... and Sotorii would never have been possessed by Fu Leng if Hotomi had just done her job properly."

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1 hour ago, Manchu said:

Hitomi failed in this fiction as surely as Kuwanan did. Which one ends up being the bigger screw up depends on what happened to Sotorii. But I think Hitomi will ultimately be the real loser here. A year from now, we can look back on this and say, "... and Sotorii would never have been possessed by Fu Leng if Hotomi had just done her job properly."

Yeah Togashi Yokuni, while not really big on specifics, was all about making sure the Dragon were assisting the Prince.  2 Princes, 2 Dragons, and one of them has dropped their ball.

Edited by Doji Hyōkin

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7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Depends if it was mindless flight or deliberately recognising an opportunity to escape. The fields which made the dragon hard to see probably wouldn't have hidden a figure on horseback; Sotorii may be arrogant, a bad swordsman, and have a very distorted worldview but there's no reason to believe he's stupid within the reality he understands.

Exactly how he's supposed to cope if he's now out on his own is a different matter.

Plot twist: turns out being forced to live hand-to-mouth as a filthy ronin for several months was exactly what Sotorii needed to build some character at last. When he's finally rediscovered he's grown up into a decent, hard-working, deeply remorseful young man who only wishes to make amends for his past crimes.

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7 minutes ago, Mangod said:

Plot twist: turns out being forced to live hand-to-mouth as a filthy ronin for several months was exactly what Sotorii needed to build some character at last. When he's finally rediscovered he's grown up into a decent, hard-working, deeply remorseful young man who only wishes to make amends for his past crimes.

………..that and healthy dose of Fu-Leng possession will surely make him a better person.

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I suspect we're going to get a story from Sotorii's point of view in the near future, to give some idea what his motives are.  I think it's entirely possible that he fled a short distance and hid, possibly after falling or being knocked off his horse.  Why?  Fear.  Fear and cowardice are not the same.  Fear is a normal and understandable reaction from anyone in a life or death combat, to say nothing of someone who has never been in or even seen one suddenly having a battle explode around him.  He's panicked and taken off, which will give him a moment to reflect, and sadly, given his character, likely to get angry, self-loathe a bit, and look for someone to blame.  Maybe he'll try to escape.  Maybe he'll have a Fu Leng whispering to him to tell him how.  I don't think so though; I think he'll go back to the caravan and order them to turn around to "rightfully claim his Throne" - and now there's a Crane faction willing to claim the edict is a forgery who will likely back him up.

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2 hours ago, Mangod said:

Plot twist: turns out being forced to live hand-to-mouth as a filthy ronin for several months was exactly what Sotorii needed to build some character at last. When he's finally rediscovered he's grown up into a decent, hard-working, deeply remorseful young man who only wishes to make amends for his past crimes.

That's pretty good, actually!

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5 hours ago, Mangod said:

Plot twist: turns out being forced to live hand-to-mouth as a filthy ronin for several months was exactly what Sotorii needed to build some character at last. When he's finally rediscovered he's grown up into a decent, hard-working, deeply remorseful young man who only wishes to make amends for his past crimes.

Well, once he's been separated from his entourage, and after getting scuffed up a bit, who's going to believe he's Imperial?  Some random dirty samurai shouting about how the Throne is his is crazy, not the Hidden Emperor. How many people can actually recognize Sotorii in person?  The Clan Champions, the Imperial Court, maybe the family daimyos?

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8 hours ago, Manchu said:

But keep in mind that Legion did not grow out of Imp Assault. In fact, there were a lot of unhappy campers about Legion using a slightly different scale from Imp Assault. FFG might have learned a lesson there, I suppose.

 

There is no lesson to learn as per say. The scale change was a directive from The Mouse and FFG are expressly forbidden from offering any kind of physical conversion between the two systems.

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7 hours ago, MirumotoKatsuro said:

I think he'll go back to the caravan and order them to turn around to "rightfully claim his Throne" - and now there's a Crane faction willing to claim the edict is a forgery who will likely back him up.

I doubt that. If he were going to go directly back to the people he was with, there wouldn't be much point in having him vanish at the end of this story. Since he did vanish, I expect a longer absence to ensue, and encounters with people other than his previous escort.

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9 hours ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

Well, once he's been separated from his entourage, and after getting scuffed up a bit, who's going to believe he's Imperial?  Some random dirty samurai shouting about how the Throne is his is crazy, not the Hidden Emperor. How many people can actually recognize Sotorii in person?  The Clan Champions, the Imperial Court, maybe the family daimyos?

Probably not even most of them. I can't imagine the Kuni or Kaiu daimyo spend much time in the capital, for example.

 

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16 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

There is no lesson to learn as per say. The scale change was a directive from The Mouse and FFG are expressly forbidden from offering any kind of physical conversion between the two systems.

I mean, that's the very reason a lesson could be learned. FFG owns L5R. They could therefore make miniatures gaming quality figures (e.g., multi part) for an adventure game that could be ported over to an eventual miniatures game.

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On 10/24/2019 at 11:17 AM, Ishi Tonu said:

………..that and healthy dose of Fu-Leng possession will surely make him a better person.

What if: He doesn't get possessed by Fu-Leng? In fact, what if him and Daisetsu being remove from the Imperial City when they were STOPS Fu-Leng from possessing either? Even though Daisetsu is clearly questioning Bushido, he is presenting to many a compassionate image. He would, actually, be more likely to succumb to the Kolat ideals rather than the dark siren's song of Fu-Leng right now. And, Sotorii? He could, perhaps, learn the proper humility being on the run for a time. Remember that he was not going to the Monastery to retire, because he was supposed to return to be an advisor for his brother. He was going there to learn humility and to calm the rage that simmers in his heart, th same rage that killed his father.

I think this is going to end up being interesting, no matter what happens...but what if, instad of the Hantei being posessed by Fu-leng, it ends up being whoever he ends up trusting the most as an advisor?

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4 hours ago, sakieh said:

I think this is going to end up being interesting, no matter what happens...but what if, instad of the Hantei being posessed by Fu-leng, it ends up being whoever he ends up trusting the most as an advisor?

Like maybe one of the heirs runs into Furumaro, who guides them along the true path!

I'm cool with that.  ;)

 

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