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Nest of ‘Vipers at Worlds!

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Congrats to Mitchell Raab for the strong showing with 4 StarVipers!  Having played a tripple SV list more than anything else back in the waning days of 1.0, I am very glad to see ‘Vipers get some love and respect.

However, I imagine this will make the stupid high ebay single conversion price jump higher (which is why I’ve not gone further than the 2 dials in the kit)...so bad on Mitchell Raab - boooooo!

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@Crimsonwarlock has been playing them since 1.0 with 4 & Sunny. Won multiple store champs and trials and has hundreds of reps with them. A few people have had some success with them following his trial wins and I’m sure more will hop on after his top 4 finish. Now more than just SoCal will feel the pain of the vipers lol

 

Also, since he’s already taken the butterfly look. Someone should paint them with snake skins since they are Vipers after all!

Edited by Quack Shot

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19 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Apparently he stalled his ships out in the corner of the mat most of this matches, much like what Phantoms did.

Quad Vipers are best when they can limit your movement options and drag opponents through the rocks. He’s not stalling, he’s trying to gain the best position possible. 

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2 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:

Quad Vipers are best when they can limit your movement options and drag opponents through the rocks. He’s not stalling, he’s trying to gain the best position possible. 

No, no, no... you don't get it.  When aces do it, they're getting position and it's fine. When generics do it, it's stalling and bad.  :P {/sarcasm}

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It was great to watch Mitch fly em. He held his nerve and was super polite in his stream games. He showed just what a good player with a good list and a lot of reps can do. 
 

I wonder what he will dream up next or will he stick with the vipers for ever!

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16 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

exactly how did the stalling work to his advantage? 

 

Actually almost makes me not want to try it. I don't have the patience for stall games. 

Liberal use of the one speed with roll. Vipers spring and box exceptionally well when you can call your opponents move around an obstacle.

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46 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Liberal use of the one speed with roll. Vipers spring and box exceptionally well when you can call your opponents move around an obstacle.

Can you pretend I’m a noob here (I really am here, no experience with fortressing) and explain these concepts and why it’s so much more efficient than normal flying and engagement? 

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40 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Liberal use of the one speed with roll. Vipers spring and box exceptionally well when you can call your opponents move around an obstacle.

This is basically it.  Add in the exceptional amount of range control available and you have a weapon capable of handling almost anything.

 

Dee Yun told me straight up that I would would be DQ'd if I flew the Vipers at LVO in the same way I did at worlds. 

 

Alex Davey watched at least 1 of my games and 2 of them were had Brent Wong himself as a Dedicated Judge.  At no point did either individual tell me I was out of line.  I think that's as good of a test as any as to whether my strategy is legal.

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1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

exactly how did the stalling work to his advantage? 

 

Actually almost makes me not want to try it. I don't have the patience for stall games. 

People are using the word stall, but I wouldn’t. He’s just doing 1-speed moves and the squirrely barrel roll to kind of drift sideways.

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21 minutes ago, pheaver said:

I think DQ is an overstatement.  You'd receive a warning to stop exploiting a stalemate, then if you continued it would expand to a game loss, and, finally, if you kept at it despite what the judges say, a DQ.

The same would happen at NOVA.  Since I announced that people should not exploit stalemate conditions at NOVA in advance, no one did!  It was great.

 

If you were judging the games I played on stream (there are 4, pick 1), where would the warning/penalty/DQ be issued?

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8 minutes ago, Crimsonwarlock said:

If you were judging the games I played on stream (there are 4, pick 1), where would the warning/penalty/DQ be issued?

Interested to hear this as well. When a player from the NHL is suspended they would do a video highlighting what is correct and what isn’t and showing when the penalty occurred. This would be a nice reference for players to see when going to NOVA or LVO. Do I sense a GSP Quick Tip video? Lol
 

@pheaver Here’s the matches that were on stream, so it’s easy to find. 

GSP Round 4, Top 8
FFG Top 16, Top 4

 

 

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The warning would happen in Swiss round 1 before you get on stream.  Honestly, I'd probably take you aside beforehand, since you are known to use this tactic, and explain to you that exploiting a stalemate condition isn't acceptable in my events.

Note: I'm not blaming you for doing this, or calling you a bad person or anything.  If the marshal allows it, you are free to do what you want.

 

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24 minutes ago, pheaver said:

The warning would happen in Swiss round 1 before you get on stream.  Honestly, I'd probably take you aside beforehand, since you are known to use this tactic, and explain to you that exploiting a stalemate condition isn't acceptable in my events.

Note: I'm not blaming you for doing this, or calling you a bad person or anything.  If the marshal allows it, you are free to do what you want.

 

Sorry if I'm missing the point entirely, but I'm asking what specific move was in violation of the rules?  

 

In my game vs Duncan (or any of my games for that matter, substitute right for left as needed) this was my opening.  Where do I get the boot?

Turn 1: 1 Hard Right 

Turn 2: 1 Straight

Turn 3: 2 Bank Left with Right Roll angled left.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, pheaver said:

Sorry, but I'm not playing this game with you.  You are not arguing in good faith.  Have a good day.

 

Hi Paul, I myself am not arguing. I’m just genuinely curious when that line for jockeying for position gets crossed and think it would be useful to know through something visual. I run Han/Luke a ton and there’s times where Luke is running and trying to bait and opponent doesn’t bite. Sometimes Han gets that long range shot, but it’s mainly just trying to set up the best engage and it can take 10-15 minutes. 

Edited by Quack Shot

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Unfortunately, it's impossible to come up with a hard-and-fast rule.  That's why judges and marshals exist.

Your example sounds kosher: you're trying to engage your opponent, approaching and feinting, etc.

The lists that are problems are almost always lists that have a final salvo advantage: quad Phantoms, quad Vipers, 4U, and Kylo 2 Ups all have ways of waiting for their opponent to engage them and playing passively.  Swarms also usually have ways to just hang out and move up and down the board edge. 

Han/Luke loses the final salvo at time, so a stalemate situation (a 0-0 score) is a pretty bad strategy.

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4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

The solution to "stalling", assuming people find it that annoying, is objectives that players have to actively pursue generally near the middle of the table

Agree with above.
 

Objectives fix this argument. And people’s problems with any list (like jedi regen). Armada-style objects add a new twist on list building. 
 

and aces high was the best side event of worlds. 

Edited by Shenannigan

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