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Forcause31

Quiting at the final table -Worlds Recap

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This might not be the most popular post. But did anyone notice that the American player folded with a Z-95 I1 with full health?  Granted he still probably would have lost, but you make the final table and then quit?  Come on, many players fought hard to attempt to get there and then he doesn't even finish the game. FFG should have made him finish the game, miracles do happen after all. I think it's unsportsmanlike and a terrible precedent for a final table. Thoughts?

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2 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

In fact, I'd say it's poor sportsmanship to play it out and not concede victory.  The players had been there for a long time, why make everyone suffer through a few more pointless rounds?  This isn't Lake Placid, and this ain't hockey.  This is X-Wing, miracles don't happen.  The nature of the dice, PS advantage, and repositioning often means that Jesus himself couldn't win such a lopsided forgone conclusion.

I would agree, except that the Grand Inquisitor turned away leaving the Z a chance to possibly get one more ship and maybe coming close to even the match. There was still about 23 minutes left. Plenty of time for a round or two to see what happens. 

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10 minutes ago, Forcause31 said:

I would agree, except that the Grand Inquisitor turned away leaving the Z a chance to possibly get one more ship and maybe coming close to even the match. There was still about 23 minutes left. Plenty of time for a round or two to see what happens. 

Are we both talking about X-Wing: The Miniatures Game? 

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29 minutes ago, Forcause31 said:

I would agree, except that the Grand Inquisitor turned away leaving the Z a chance to possibly get one more ship and maybe coming close to even the match. There was still about 23 minutes left. Plenty of time for a round or two to see what happens. 

Say he does get another kill; what does he gain? Killing either ace isn't enough of a swing to put the Rebel player in the lead, and in the time it takes him to maybe kill one ace the other has either gone to the other side of the table, making it impossible to catch, or has straight-up murdered the Z-95.

The game was over. The Rebel player knew it. The Imperial player knew it. I would wager every man, woman and child watching knew it. If the Rebel player doesn't want to go through the motions of waiting to be executed, that's perfectly fine.

Edited by DR4CO

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1 hour ago, Forcause31 said:

FFG should have made him finish the game, miracles do happen after all.

Even if FFG's marshalls somehow decided to overreach their own tournament rules to compel a player to withdraw a concession under threat of DQ, he could just fly off the table ASAP. It's probably what I would do if any TO tried that with me, because the rules are clear that players are permitted to concede.

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Jeez, the guy just lost the final match in the X-Wing world championship, cut him some slack. I imagine he’s got enough weighing on his mind without anyone trying to make him feel guilty for conceding when he clearly had no chance of victory. Even if conceding was in poor taste, it would be in much poorer taste to make a big stink about it in a public forum. 

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Geez, what's the problem here nowadays? It is nice that we can watch streams, but these playing there are playing to enjoy and entertain themselves.

They have zero obligation to entertain stream watchers.

They are not gladiators you can force to fight until the bitter end, neither are they paid sport stars or actors, paid to entertain us . On the contrary, most tournament visitors have a lot of expenses (travel , stay, entrance fees). Neither are most streams something you pay for to be entertained, unlike sports channels etc.

So if a player on stream has pretty sure already  lost the game (or perceives it as lost), and no longer enjoys it, (s)he has all rights to quit.

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I normally don’t like conceding in any game, but in this game there was no way he could get close to winning unless Vader and whisper flew off the board. It had been a long day and probably wanted it to be over.

But as you have seen in some of the replies here, people can’t formulate an opposing opinion without being ***hats about it. 

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It was nearly statistically impossible for the Z to do ANY damage. Let alone the aces PS killing and arc dodging him... which means at BEST a range 2-3 shot with 2 dice against ships that could both have double modded defense dice with evade focus force or evade force. 
 

On a crazy fluke he might do 1 damage against 1 ace before dying. 
 

It was a good handshake. 

Edited by JBFancourt

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The only reason we’ve been trained to play to the bitter end in an x-wing tournament is how MoV works on a concession.
 

At the final table, or really any of the elimination bracket rounds, MoV is meaningless. You win or you lose. At that point, if it’s at the point where the game is truly decided, I think it makes sense to honorably and politely concede.

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The only time in a game like that I wouldn’t concede is during a Swiss round where I may get lucky enough to influence MOV. But in a casual game or elimination game, there’s just no point in making everyone suffer with that small percentage of win condition.

Oli would have probably just kept avoiding engagements so you’re looking at another x minutes of pointless flying. That doesn’t make anyone a better player.

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19 hours ago, Forcause31 said:

I think it's unsportsmanlike and a terrible precedent for a final table. Thoughts?

 

14 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

But as you have seen in some of the replies here, people can’t formulate an opposing opinion without being ***hats about it. 

He just called the 2nd best player of XWM unsporting.  Kick a hornet hive and all. . .

14 hours ago, Major Tom said:

 Grinding out the extra time does not make you a bigger man 

This.  The most sporting thing to do is admit defeat and save the other guy 23 minutes of his life.

Sportsmanship is abiding by the spirit of the game.   Grinding out 23 minutes is just playing it by the rules.

Lastly, and more generally, I suspect this is why players percieved 1.0 Epic as "too long."  You don't play 300 point games to the bitter end. 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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I’d encourage you to set up the exact game scenario on your own table. Have a friend, a significant other, a child, or the family dog play the imperial side.

 

Report back here with a play by play and tell us how many of those games the z-95 comes out on top. 

 

Looking forward to your results.

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Short of Oli flying both ships off the board in the greatest freak display of loss of judgement in X Wing history, there is absolutely no way that Z-95 does anything more than maybe one damage to either ace. They both can take evade actions, one can cloak, and neither would ever be caught in arc if they didn’t want to be. The Z95 is rolling two dice. It’s just not going to happen. Knowing when you can’t pull it back is sporting. 

In case you were curious, a focused Z-95 has a 2.9% chance of doing 1 damage to grand inquisitor, with focus/force/evade. 1 damage.

Edited by dsul413

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If I understand the situation correctly I do not blame the guy for conceding. I would not do it. If I had gone all that way and made it to the final table, I would play it out till the bitter end. But I am a spiteful mammy-rammer.

I do not think any part of good sportsmanship means you ever have to quit. 

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