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Flesh Mitts (aka the pain of the new sprues)

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I picked up the first of my clone war cores today and I am absolutely dreading (and considering canceling) core #2.  

"But Loki, 2 cores is the most cost effective way to start the new factions" you say...and I agree!

But the new model assembly is simply horrendous. 

In the first set, figs were easy to assemble and the skill required was a 2/10.  This set, the droideka droids were a 7/10. 

Small, fiddly, mediocre connection points coupled with unclear sprue cut points and overly (dare I say unnecessarily) complex instructions made for a lousy few hours of frustration. 

When you put figs on sprues, you need an assembly booklet. GW figured this out. The instructions in the book are a wall of text with a diagram that is not easy to follow. 

This is 30 years of modeling experience speaking. 

I can not recommend this set to beginners and in fact don't think I'd recommend it to journeymen either! 

Unless they go back to the old style, my days of new legion purchases may very well be at an end.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, loki_tbc said:

I picked up the first of my clone war cores today and I am absolutely dreading (and considering canceling) core #2.  

"But Loki, 2 cores is the most cost effective way to start the new factions" you say...and I agree!

But the new model assembly is simply horrendous. 

In the first set, figs were easy to assemble and the skill required was a 2/10.  This set, the droideka droids were a 7/10. 

Small, fiddly, mediocre connection points coupled with unclear sprue cut points and overly (dare I say unnecessarily) complex instructions made for a lousy few hours of frustration. 

When you put figs on sprues, you need an assembly booklet. GW figured this out. The instructions in the book are a wall of text with a diagram that is not easy to follow. 

This is 30 years of modeling experience speaking. 

I can not recommend this set to beginners and in fact don't think I'd recommend it to journeymen either! 

Unless they go back to the old style, my days of new legion purchases may very well be at an end.

 

 

It is there first attempt. They may get better. FFG also created a video of putting them together, does that not help (I didn’t watch it yet)?

Guess it will be challenging for me. I have almost no experience with spues.🥺

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Oh how I absolutely dislike assembling those battle droids. clearly my mistake that I never checked before buying that they dont come as all the other minis so far. droidekas were a pain, but at least parts fitted more or less. with the droids, thats not remotely the case. 

 

undoubtedly countless people manage well, and people will say thats an essential part of the hobby. For me, the diagrams are so bad, they dont show anything on how the angles really should look like. Making the tiny head two parts, is that really a technical necessity? For variation? As the op said, cutting points are really unclear, as well.

I will not buy anymore minis like these, neither my patience nor skill level nor motivation to get over this particular assembly step are up to the task. Previous post links a video, hope it is helpful in some way.

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The CIS arms can get pretty frustrating.  Not the worst modeling I've done, but it certainly wasn't an easy assembly.

Sprues make sense for droids, as they are so thin, soft plastic would have meant bendy droids.  The effort is worth the end result and I am pleased (though I'll be picking glue off my fingers for days).

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There are a couple of problems with those sprues.

Cutting point are not clear, true for the left arms only.

You should just cut the most obvious points (ie shoulder), then gently turn around the arm. This should evidentiate the cutting poinu on the wrist.

Instructions sre not clear at all on how to assemble correclty the arms. I guess most peopke did not catch the wrist/hand connection on the gun.

Ffg issued an additional pdf which is way more explicative.

General grievious also has some problems because they don t explain how the different option are mutually exclusives (e.g. the collar and cape)

Droidekas are a mess. The pdf helps a lot here. But sincerely speaking, after you have built one, you don't have a problem building the second.

The b1s head is another problem. They had to make it in two pieces, due to casting issues. They simply choosed a wrong way to split it. I guess a longitudinal cut would have worked better. Probably the did it that way in order to mask the joint line. 

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2 hours ago, toffolone said:

There are a couple of problems with those sprues.

Cutting point are not clear, true for the left arms only.

You should just cut the most obvious points (ie shoulder), then gently turn around the arm. This should evidentiate the cutting poinu on the wrist.

Instructions sre not clear at all on how to assemble correclty the arms. I guess most peopke did not catch the wrist/hand connection on the gun.

Ffg issued an additional pdf which is way more explicative.

General grievious also has some problems because they don t explain how the different option are mutually exclusives (e.g. the collar and cape)

Droidekas are a mess. The pdf helps a lot here. But sincerely speaking, after you have built one, you don't have a problem building the second.

The b1s head is another problem. They had to make it in two pieces, due to casting issues. They simply choosed a wrong way to split it. I guess a longitudinal cut would have worked better. Probably the did it that way in order to mask the joint line. 

In relation to Grevious the collar goes on top of the cape I put it underneath and I referred to the film too late to discover the cloak attaches underneath the collar

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Thank you to those who pointed out the video! 

Admittedly, I am a fairly impatient dude so watching the video is gonna be a challenge (lots of jibber-jabber, didn't see time stamps for relevant assembly of special models) but I will absolutely do it. 

One thing that does really bugs me is how much harder assembly is with the CIS than it was with previous offerings. The droids are comparable to skeletons, from other games and while I love the undead, that was never going to be a thing because of my massive, uncoordinated bratwurst fingers. 

Anyway, I don't think FFG is going to change but based on how badly I butchered my first set, I might need to get set two to at least have some models to put on the table. (I straight up ruined the Droidekas.. really disappointed in myself)

 

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2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@NebulonB I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but FFG have stated they are moving the entire product line over to hard plastic sprues, including eventually switching over existing kits.

Aaaaaaaand if this is true, I am out.  I wonder what's up with my XWing community...

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I don't get the problem with the sprues.  They take longer to get together, and the 2 piece droid head was a little annoying, but the instructions provided aren't bad.  I put all of mine together in about a day, and that was well before the "how to" videos came out.  I'm incredibly happy that they're moving to sprues, because it means more customization and higher quality sculpts.  Just wish the Clones were on sprues already. 

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9 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I don't get the problem with the sprues.  They take longer to get together, and the 2 piece droid head was a little annoying, but the instructions provided aren't bad.  I put all of mine together in about a day, and that was well before the "how to" videos came out.  I'm incredibly happy that they're moving to sprues, because it means more customization and higher quality sculpts.  Just wish the Clones were on sprues already. 

I think you are failing to consider that dexterity levels vary and I can only speak for myself, but the frustration is that Legion and FFG established the easy to build precedent with IA and Legion Rebel/Imperial and this set is a real departure from that.

Edit: Holy god... I hadn't even tried the B1 heads yet! You have got to be kidding me...  

 

Edited by loki_tbc
ffg models suck

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1 minute ago, Alpha17 said:

I don't get the problem with the sprues.  They take longer to get together, and the 2 piece droid head was a little annoying, but the instructions provided aren't bad.  I put all of mine together in about a day, and that was well before the "how to" videos came out.  I'm incredibly happy that they're moving to sprues, because it means more customization and higher quality sculpts.  Just wish the Clones were on sprues already. 

To be fair, it just means the possibility of more customization, lots of companies produce single pose sprues these days such as GW, and not just for named characters either. We may only get as much customization as we have with some of the soft plastics, a spare head/arm. 

The "problem" with complicated sprues is that everything else about Legion is designed to be welcoming to beginners, but with the droids the sprue attachment points at the wrist are easy to miss if you don't know what you are looking for, and in general the droids are fidly. With my fat fingers I'll likely have to pull out the tweezers, not the end of the world, but not the most beginner friendly models, unlike the less detailed soft plastics.

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6 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

To be fair, it just means the possibility of more customization, lots of companies produce single pose sprues these days such as GW, and not just for named characters either. We may only get as much customization as we have with some of the soft plastics, a spare head/arm. 

The "problem" with complicated sprues is that everything else about Legion is designed to be welcoming to beginners, but with the droids the sprue attachment points at the wrist are easy to miss if you don't know what you are looking for, and in general the droids are fidly. With my fat fingers I'll likely have to pull out the tweezers, not the end of the world, but not the most beginner friendly models, unlike the less detailed soft plastics.

Even with what they've done right now, there is far more customization possible than their first generation of minis.  Grievous is a perfect example, and not something that would have really been practical in soft plastic.  The extra pieces have a bit of a cascading effect, because even if you don't use pieces like the extra arms, you have those pieces available for projects down the line.  I've already used extra parts from my GenCon Grievous in at least two other minis/projects, and that's just scratching the surface of what can be done. 

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15 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

Even with what they've done right now, there is far more customization possible than their first generation of minis.  Grievous is a perfect example, and not something that would have really been practical in soft plastic.  The extra pieces have a bit of a cascading effect, because even if you don't use pieces like the extra arms, you have those pieces available for projects down the line.  I've already used extra parts from my GenCon Grievous in at least two other minis/projects, and that's just scratching the surface of what can be done. 

Fair point on the spare parts, but Grevious doesn't offer significantly more customization than either Sabine or Bossk in my opinion, both of which were in the soft plastic. Cloak option instead of headswap, and two sets of arms with one weapon option. 

Phase 2 clones are the first non-droid sprue, and they only allow for a single head swap, and have a spare weapon (either a Z-6 or the standard DX-15A) according to the article. Going by just the articles, thats about the same amount of customization as the Upgrade packs are allowing, which are in soft plastic. I think the increase in options has more to do with FFG listening to the fans than the switch to hard plastic.

Edited by Caimheul1313

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8 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Fair point on the spare parts, but Grevious doesn't offer significantly more customization than either Sabine or Bossk in my opinion, both of which were in the soft plastic. Cloak option instead of headswap, and two sets of arms with one weapon option. 

Phase 2 clones are the first non-droid sprue, and they only allow for a single head swap, and have a spare weapon (either a Z-6 or the standard DX-15A) according to the article. Going by just the articles, that about the same amount of customization as the Upgrade packs are allowing, which are in soft plastic. I think the increase in options has more to do with FFG listening to the fans than the switch to hard plastic.

I think you're forgetting the poses as well.  Tweaking Grievous to hold a lightsaber with his foot wouldn't be possible with the soft plastic minis, but more than one person has done so with the hard plastics. 

We'll have to see the differences on the upgrades/Phase IIs, as I hate to speculate based on the vague and often inaccurate articles.  

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35 minutes ago, loki_tbc said:

I think you are failing to consider that dexterity levels vary and I can only speak for myself, but the frustration is that Legion and FFG established the easy to build precedent with IA and Legion Rebel/Imperial and this set is a real departure from that.

Edit: Holy god... I hadn't even tried the B1 heads yet! You have got to be kidding me...  

 

Eh, the heads aren't so bad, at least there is a notch to make sure they line up. I've had some kits with a similar split part that requires the modeller line them up by eye and touch. Especially with some of the older historical kits. Also, being able to use plastic glue on small pieces is significantly nicer than super glue, since I always have issues with the small pieces sticking to my hand more readily than the rest of the model. But I understand your frustrations. If you're interested in infantry wargaming, I know A Song Of Ice And Fire models come pre-assembled. 

1 minute ago, Alpha17 said:

I think you're forgetting the poses as well.  Tweaking Grievous to hold a lightsaber with his foot wouldn't be possible with the soft plastic minis, but more than one person has done so with the hard plastics. 

We'll have to see the differences on the upgrades/Phase IIs, as I hate to speculate based on the vague and often inaccurate articles.  

That modification requiring hard plastic has more to do with the thinness of Grievous's limbs, meaning the model was really only possible in that material (without a lot of warping I'm sure). I've seen some rather extensive conversions using the soft plastics in addition to metal models, resins, preconstructed pvcs, and other materials. The main limiting factor in conversions are imagination and the amount of effort the convertor is willing to put in. I do admit some kits are easier to convert than others, and plastic glue gives a better bond than superglue in my experience.

I further agree that we'll see what is the actual case when we get the models in hand. In my opinion the articles SHOULD be accurately representing the amount of customization options though, since that is a desirable trait for customers, and selling models is the main point of the article. But I know that my opinion and reality offer differ in such things.

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1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@NebulonB I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but FFG have stated they are moving the entire product line over to hard plastic sprues, including eventually switching over existing kits.

hmm. I have every Legion item so far at least once, ok save one, but they wont miss me I guess. and Armada will stay sprue free, so all good :)

Edited by NebulonB

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13 minutes ago, NebulonB said:

hmm. I have every Legion item so far at least once, ok save one, but they wont miss me I guess. and Armada will stay spruce free, so all good :)

Feel free to vote with you wallet, I do for various other games/products. 

With new Star Wars media being released, I expect other people will start buying in to make up for you leaving Legion. 

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@Caimheul1313 Sure, but shouldn't the idea be to keep as much of the player base as you can? Last time I checked, avoidable customer turnover is awful for a business. 

Here you have at least 2 people who are upset enough to tell FFG (via their forums) why they are disinclined to continue purchasing product and you have some folks here who are happy to watch an already middling community dwindle further on the hope that maybe new SW IP Entertainment means more people will start playing. 

Also, if these folks do start playing, wouldn't you rather they start with easy to assemble models rather than these? 

Not that I expect responses other than 'bye' from the douchebags who dwell on the internet, but FFG likes money so I would hope they would be interested in knowing the reasons why I am taking your advice and voting with my wallet. 

Cheers.

 

 

Edited by loki_tbc

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10 hours ago, Atromix said:

Really? I've had no issues with assembling my CIS units, the sprues didn't seem much different from most GW stuff, and I've arguably seen worse stuff from GW. I was able to build all my B1's and Droidekas in an evening without too much struggle.

I watched someone with shaky hands and zero sprue experience knock out 4 great looking b1s.

if your reading this don't let the naysayers deter you. the models look great, the hard plastic is a huge upgrade. 

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1 hour ago, loki_tbc said:

@Caimheul1313 Sure, but shouldn't the idea be to keep as much of the player base as you can? Last time I checked, avoidable customer turnover is awful for a business. 

Here you have at least 2 people who are upset enough to tell FFG (via their forums) why they are disinclined to continue purchasing product and you have some folks here who are happy to watch an already middling community dwindle further on the hope that maybe new SW IP Entertainment means more people will start playing. 

Also, if these folks do start playing, wouldn't you rather they start with easy to assemble models rather than these? 

Not that I expect responses other than 'bye' from the douchebags who dwell on the internet, but FFG likes money so I would hope they would be interested in knowing the reasons why I am taking your advice and voting with my wallet. 

Cheers.

 

 

imo the legion community is growing not dwindling

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