RitR fleet point total?

[booooooze 1]

Anyone care to opine what this number is for the purposes of XP and understrength bonus?

Is it:

- the number of points on your sheet (even if your fleet has upgrades you're not bringing to the table) (so allies, fighter wing, hired scum etc don't count)?

- the number of points you place during deployment (but what about hyperspace?)?

- the number of points you commanded at some point (how does pilot defection work)?

 

Currently having a debate, no one is quite sure.

[eliteone 643]

I'd argue it's your base fleet + whatever an objective may have added to your fleet. So for Pilot Defection, 3 squads are added to my opponents total fleet value, and this will allow them to exceed the 250 point cap. 

With Pilot Defection if I add two z-95s and one YT-2400, that's 30 points, however once I activate the Objective and add (lets say ) the YT-2400, those 16 points get added to my total fleet value, leaving my opponents fleet with 14 additional points, instead of 30.

If for some reason I did not add the Defector (playing for the loss/under-strength bonus maybe?) 

[Fraggle_Rock 308]

The RitR calls attention to a few of these points:

Page 18 under "Equip Upgrades" it states: "Upgrade cards that are not equipped are set aside and can be equipped during a later campaign turn, but still count toward a player's fleet-value total."

Page 3 under "Scoring Additional Forces" : "...the fleet point value of destroyed ships and squadrons that were added to a player's fleet are counted as enemy ships or squadrons by that player's opponent."

In the campaign I am in, this did come up. We decided that for Hired Scum, the extra 37 points counted toward the fleet's total and this was sufficient to allow the opposing commander an extra experience point.

[SirToastsalot 41]

So we were debating this, and we think we found the answer.

 

On page 2 it says "After a campaign game, additional forces are removed from that player's fleet and not added to their roster."

Then on Page 15, the score battle step also references After the game, which occurs before the determine experience step. So when the determine experience step occurs the fleet point total has been reset. 
 

It felt off to give a bonus to a fleet that was equal in strength before a battle.  Basically the winner of the battle won the recruit allies objective, gained 50 squad points, and won the battle 250-40. But the loser then would have gained 2 extra experience, and been able to gain an additional 2 fleet rewards (Or 10 additional points towards a chosen reward) , which is better than the fleet rewards for winning the battle.  The winning commander got 3 xp and 10 fleet points, whereas the loser got 15 squad points and 4 experience.

The under strength fleet bonus feel as if it was put in place to help a fleet that was sorely behind  (Such as if you retired a fleet), but when you enter a battle as equal fleets and the loser comes out with more rewards that doesn't feel good. 

[Grumbleduke 810]

The page 3 thing ("Scoring Additional Forces") says:

Quote

When determining scores at the end of the game, the fleet point value of destroyed ships (and their equipped upgrades) and squadrons that were added to a player's fleet are counted as enemy ships or squadrons by that player's opponent.

The Battle phase thing on page 15 then refers to the scoring rules on page 9 of the Rules Reference:

Quote

Players determine their score at the end of the game. A player’s score is the total fleet point cost of destroyed enemy ships and squadrons plus the fleet point value of any victory tokens that the player collected.

Putting these together, I would argue the fleet point value of added ships (that are destroyed) aren't part of the fleet point value of the player's fleet. The page 3 rule specifies that they are counted "when determining scores", the implication being that if the rules have to say they are counted when determining scores, they're not counted anywhere else. If they were part of the player's fleet point value we would not need the extra page 3 rule.

Helpfully, the page 18 reference ("Equip Upgrades") refers to a player's "fleet-value total", not a "fleet point value" or "fleet point total", and the Rules Reference talks about "fleet point costs" and the CC rules (at least the FAQ) talk about the "fleet-point value" - and I am not sure any of these terms is that clearly defined, but I think they are mostly meant to be the same thing (although only upgrades, ships and squadrons have "costs"). But I think the intention (if not actual effect) is that a player's "fleet point total" is the total cost of all the ships and upgrade cards on their Fleet Roster (i.e. the back page of the Rebellion in the Rim Fleet Roster sheet). It does not include temporary stuff (which only counts "when determining scores") and does not include extra points gained from objectives (e.g. Victory Token points). Those only count for the score.

So if you added squadrons due to an Objective and had some upgrade cards set aside, the added squadrons (if destroyed) would count to your score (including the 75 point XP bonus for the winner) but the set aside upgrades would not. However, the set aside upgrades count to your "fleet point total" (including the 25-point loser bonuses - XP and upgrades) while the added squadrons do not.

Also remember that in RitR there is no "tabling" rule and no "play to the end of the round" rule. When a player has no ships left the game ends immediately - and any remaining squadrons are not destroyed.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Grumbleduke