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Admiral Ro

Raiders anti-squadron role

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Greetings,

                      I was thinking about builds that can defend against squadrons.  I came up with the build bellow. After a few practice maneuvers it is doable to keep in close range of an Imperial Star Destroyer and provide anti-squadron defense.  Two Assault Carriers with Quad Laser Turrets and Repair Crews hanging out in the back would give five activations for a 400 point game. All ships in this list have black dice for Anti-squadron. This should provide a cloud of flak that makes even Aces wince. I am debating leaving this as is or dropping the Assault Carriers  and adding one more Raider with Ordnance Experts and Flechette Torpedoes leaving a bid of 22 points.  Still not sure if the TIE Fighters are just a waste of points at this point as I could almost get another Raider (forming a box around the ISD) .  Either way I am pretty confident that I can keep fighters "Activated" and use the ISD to punch any Rebels pretty hard. The big weakness I see is at long range, an Akbar gun line could chew the Raiders up pretty good and then fighters could make life interesting for my ISD and carriers. Assuming there are enough turns/objectives left. Another possibility that comes to mind is using a Raider to seize objectives while the rest of the smaller ships defend the Flag Ship.  If I can get my raiders to encircle the fighters and stay with them I should be able to lock them up.  Has any one played with something similar? I am looking for thoughts. Not that I am a squadron hater, I just prefer capitol ships. I have not found a regular game so I end up spending time looking a rules and cards to come up with builds and doing test maneuvers. Thank you for sticking with me please leave a comment I value your points of view.

 

 

Raider I-Class Corvette (40 points) Two black dice for anti-squadron.
-  Agent Kallus  ( 3  points)  Gives an extra black die to attack with against aces.
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)  Allows for re-roll of dice during attacks (does not say ships only so I assume I can use against squadrons.)
-  Quad Laser Turrets  ( 5  points)  Grants one blue die against a squadron that attacks this ship
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)  Allows a black crit to shift activation slider to activated (denying use of that fighter this turn) 

 Unless I missed something this should allow for two (Three against Aces)  dice re-rolled in an attempt to get one Crit, shifting the activation slider and denying that fight use during this turn. 

Raider I-Class Corvette (40 points) Two black dice for anti-squadron.
 Impetuous  ( 4  points)  Gives and extra attack against one squadron.
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)  allows for re-roll of dice during attacks (does not say ships only so I assume I can use against squadrons.)
-  Quad Laser Turrets  ( 5  points)  Grants one blue die against a squadron that attacks this ship
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)  allows a black crit to shift activation slider to activated (denying use of that fighter this turn) 

 Unless I missed something this should allow for two dice re-rolled in an attempt to get one Crit, shifting the activation slider and denying that fight use during this turn, and one attack against a single squadron.

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
 Suppressor  ( 4  points) 
-  Quad Laser Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Repair Crews  ( 4  points) 

= 36 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Quad Laser Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Repair Crews  ( 4  points) 

= 32 total ship cost

 

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Admiral Screed  ( 26  points) 
 Relentless  ( 3  points) 
-  Minister Tua  ( 2  points) 
-  Fire-Control Team  ( 2  points) 
-  Quad Laser Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  Redundant Shields  ( 8  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Heavy Turbolaser Turrets  ( 6  points)
 
= 170 total ship cost

 

1 Black Squadron ( 9 points) 
4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points) 
= 41 total squadron cost

 

"Surrender in the name of the Emperor, We have you under our guns"

Admiral Ro 

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I like the idea of this fleet, though not sure if it's going to work or not. I flew something similar: flakturm nebulons, but I don't recall any games against squadrons. Anyway give it a try! And practice formation flying, as it is the key for this kind of anti-air plan. 

By the way Screed and Ordnance Experts both works against squadrons and ships just fine. 

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I think you mean gunnery teams on the isd- fire control actually does absolutely nothing on that kit. I'd suggest extreme revisions to your ISD kit. Removing heavy turbos and fire team for gunnery team would be an immediate improvement. 

 

Secondarily, without a redirect a raider can and will die to a single alpha strike. 6 damage and they are dead, with 6 being a very common squad "fling" from dedicated carriers. This means it is entirely possible to lose a raider without using any attack other than its counter.

A flak raider is not an answer by itself. It is rather a secondary threat that prefers to strafe into engaged squadrons that cant attack the raider or escape its limited range. If you cant meet those 2 criteria consistently, then it's not going to pull its weight, basically ever.

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Iden will help a lot in terms of surviving, but flak is fundamentally a support element for your own squadrons (SSDs and arguably Warlord are exceptions.)  Anything else usually means sinking 50+ points into a build that doesn’t kill ships, doesn’t force or encourage squadrons to engage it, and/or can’t catch said squadrons without overshooting them next turn.  And only the Instigator title even pins squads for the brief period you do get them.  Otherwise, your opponent has choices every step of the way, and your success is dependent on their mistakes.

Point for point, a mixed-arms squadron wing is better than a flak boat in almost every way except tabling potential.

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I would like to point out that with Rebellion in the Rim, you can have Instigator, Woldar, Ordiance Experts, Fachette Torpedoes and Advanced Transponder Net all on the same Raider I. Which makes for quite the tar pit assuming you have some squadrons around. (TIE Bombers make for good bait) But you are kinda broadcasting your intentions. 

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Hi There i was thinking about this raider for the anti squdrons job:

 Raider I-Class Corvette (44 points)
-  X-Custom Commander  ( 0  points)
 Instigator  ( 4  points)
-  Iden Versio  ( 6  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)
= 61 total ship cost

Do you guys think it can be able to block a bomber ball for couple of turn ?

My thinking will be navigate in the opponent squadrons then wait for them to shoot and next turn shoot back and disable them with the torpedos

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Definitely back it up with a squadron presence. To get the shot, you’ve have to get in really close not only to the squads, but also the other ships. You’ll have a lot of pressure on your defense tokens. It can work, but it might only last a single round, if that. Even if you get into the side arc of an ISD, it can still take you down shockingly fast. I’ve been running the same build in the current Vassal tourney, though with Corvus instead of Instigator. I regret not just using ExRacks.

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8 hours ago, player3994779 said:

Hi There i was thinking about this raider for the anti squdrons job:

 Raider I-Class Corvette (44 points)
-  X-Custom Commander  ( 0  points)
 Instigator  ( 4  points)
-  Iden Versio  ( 6  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)
= 61 total ship cost

Do you guys think it can be able to block a bomber ball for couple of turn ?

My thinking will be navigate in the opponent squadrons then wait for them to shoot and next turn shoot back and disable them with the torpedos

The difficulty is staying alive inside the bomber balls long enough to get the shot off.  If you're first player, you might, assuming that nothing more pressing has arisen that turn - such as (as happened to me only today) an MC30 at black dice range of my ISD and ready to unload in to a side with 1 shield remaining. 

I had to move the ISD to keep it healthy and so the raider missed its 'ideal' shot. 

I saw someone write that you need to get the raider somewhere that the bombers have to go past you but ignore you because there's a better target and I think that's right. 

 

61 points pays for advanced transponders, two  VT49s and a TIE advanced.

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On 10/8/2019 at 1:35 AM, The Jabbawookie said:

Point for point, a mixed-arms squadron wing is better than a flak boat in almost every way except tabling potential.

There are some things the flak boat is better at - if you are running into enemies with massive counter (any Interceptor + Howl + Dengar, or you know, just Shara on her own), it can be very difficult to kill them without losing a lot of your own squads in the process.  Or capable use of 'escort' fighters to protect the thing you really want to kill.  Or even just a fighter ball much more massive than your own.  All of these things a flak boat doesn't care about - no risk of counter, ignores escort outright, flak scales to an infinite number of fighters, etc.  A flak boat doesn't need to be managed by another ship, either - it activates on its own, leaving everyone else to issue the commands they actually care about.  Which, speaking of, is another advantage - in that it lets you delay activation of more important units.  And as noted, the protection from tabling thing - I've certainly been 'tabled' a game or two with 160 or more pts still in play...all in squads and flotillas.

Still, they do have issues, and I don't think I'd want to invest heavily in them.  Only Instigator+Tua+EWS+OE feels like it could be worth bothering with (and even then, it wants a squad or two alongside to help distract the enemy fighters).

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52 minutes ago, xanderf said:

There are some things the flak boat is better at - if you are running into enemies with massive counter (any Interceptor + Howl + Dengar, or you know, just Shara on her own), it can be very difficult to kill them without losing a lot of your own squads in the process.  Or capable use of 'escort' fighters to protect the thing you really want to kill.  Or even just a fighter ball much more massive than your own.  All of these things a flak boat doesn't care about - no risk of counter, ignores escort outright, flak scales to an infinite number of fighters, etc.  A flak boat doesn't need to be managed by another ship, either - it activates on its own, leaving everyone else to issue the commands they actually care about.  Which, speaking of, is another advantage - in that it lets you delay activation of more important units.  And as noted, the protection from tabling thing - I've certainly been 'tabled' a game or two with 160 or more pts still in play...all in squads and flotillas.

Still, they do have issues, and I don't think I'd want to invest heavily in them.  Only Instigator+Tua+EWS+OE feels like it could be worth bothering with (and even then, it wants a squad or two alongside to help distract the enemy fighters).

I generally agree with this, but it’s just too situational to commit heavily against in the building phase unless you need a specific answer for that and only that, which means you brought squads anyway.

Otherwise, counter wings have vulnerable elements that can be picked off, and/or a vulnerability to normal flak.  Far better to slap LTT on a Cymoon, Lib, or AF2, and melt interceptors or aces with a ship that can do other things too.  Or field flak Demo.  The problem with flak Raiders is they don’t work very well alone or doing anything other than flakking, and other ships can just be mean to everything.

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Hey guys i think it's more clear with an exemple of what was in my mind.
That's how i wish to use this Flak Raider.
Please tell me what you guys think :)

Msu Raider Flak
Author: Sebouh

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 387/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Surprise Attack
Defense Objective: Asteroid Tactics
Navigation Objective: Hyperspace Migration

[ flagship ] Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points)
-  Captain Brunson  ( 5  points)
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points)
= 89 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
 Demolisher  ( 10  points)
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Engine Techs  ( 8  points)
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points)
= 86 total ship cost

Raider II-Class Corvette (48 points)
-  Weapons Battery Techs  ( 5  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  Heavy Ion Emplacements  ( 9  points)
= 65 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 points)
 Instigator  ( 4  points)
-  Iden Versio  ( 6  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Flechette Torpedoes  ( 3  points)
= 61 total ship cost

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)
1 Tel Trevura ( 17 points)
= 38 total squadron cost

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Think about a demo glad 2 It can be a nasty flack machine or ship hunter depending on the tactical need.

Glad 2: demo, iden, ordnance experts, engine tec and racks. That 93 points 

it’s got the potential to put down 7 (4-5 blue and or 2-3 black) dice on one fighter with some re rolls and 4 blues on an arcs worth of fights. It’s fast, manoeuvrable can actively move in and hunt fighters. With iden and its defence tokens and iden it can take a fair amount of bomber hits and if it looks like it’s going to be overwhelmed escape at pseudo speed 4.

and if there are no fighters it’s still a nasty bit of ship killer with a nasty black dice alpha strike, rerolls,  iden raid and double ram.....

it’s a proper Swiss Army knife and I have used a similar build a number of times in tournament lists and it’s does tend to surprise people when your demo suddenly takes time our from ship killing to cripple their fighter ball. 
 

I often pair him up with instigator to pin the ball. Tua, EWS, OE, external racks. 64 points of nightmare if you park it right ( bombers to your nice big front arc). If you feel mean add quad lasers ( although I would not). Again this guy can throw 5 black dice against one fighter.  He’s also happy to kill ships with EWS Helping him survive the approach and escape, and a nasty black Reroll alpha strike. EWS does Give you some protection after an ozal crash stop ( if you have just jammed a load of one dice fighter bombers to your front and the EWS is point at your main threats an ozal crash stop can work tactically).

personally I like to play ozal with these ships as the speed adjustment with their clicks will mean your opp will not know when you will stike and you can then escape.

im not saying these two ships can win the fighter game on their own against a full fat fighter group, but I’ve won games by taking out medium fighter groups, ship to fighter and the just legging it away from the ISDs chasing me in a rage.  
 

it’s not an optimal answer but if your wanting to play the imp fighter hunting with ships game you can’t go wrong with these two.

 

 

Edited by player3691565
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