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Leia Hourglass

Could a structure exist in hyperspace?

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I was thinking of this great idea of a prison that exists in hyperspace; it just sits there in that dimension. Based on the rules of Star Wars; could that work? I only see a problem with having a ship travel to it with new prisoners. Would the ship be able to dock safely with the prison or would the prison have to revert to real space momentarily?

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11 minutes ago, Kualan said:

The concept of a prison ship constantly moving through hyperspace (stopping only to refuel, change direction, or take on new prisoners) would be a neat concept. It would make a unique challenge for players to break in/out of.

Yes but could it sit still in hyperspace or is that impossible?

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19 minutes ago, Leia Hourglass said:

Yes but could it sit still in hyperspace or is that impossible?

Hyperspace is fictional, and it's rules are inconsistent within the franchise itself, depending on who is directing/writing the story in question.  Do what you want with hyperspace, nobody will say you are wrong......ok well, some ***** on this site and in the fanbase very likely WILL say you are wrong, but **** them, they aren't at your table, and they don't get to dictate how you play your game.

If you view hyperspace like how Babylon 5 dealt with it, then yes, it's basically an "other" place, and you can absolutely just float there, adrift in it.   So if anyone makes a stink, just say "it works like Babylon 5's hyperspace, now shut up and roll your dice."  

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Under the old West End System there was a module called Otherspace and Otherspace II.  It included a realm outside both realspace and hyperspace, but accessed through a malfunctioning hyperdrive.  This could form the basis of your plans.  Check the d6Holocron for those adventures.

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27 minutes ago, Edgookin said:

Under the old West End System there was a module called Otherspace and Otherspace II.  It included a realm outside both realspace and hyperspace, but accessed through a malfunctioning hyperdrive.  This could form the basis of your plans.  Check the d6Holocron for those adventures.

Was just about to say that the Otherspace modules (apart from being pretty decent horror-themed modules given their generally creepy nature) would probably inform the OP's question.

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2 hours ago, Leia Hourglass said:

I was thinking of this great idea of a prison that exists in hyperspace; it just sits there in that dimension. Based on the rules of Star Wars; could that work? I only see a problem with having a ship travel to it with new prisoners. Would the ship be able to dock safely with the prison or would the prison have to revert to real space momentarily?

Frankly, there's no hard-and-fast rules about how hyperspace operates in the GFFA, especially not within the current canon and probably not much of anything in Legends.  So you've got a free hand to do exactly that sort of thing in your game.

As for other ships interacting with this prison, that's an interesting situation, and probably something that's not simple to do as well as requiring very precise calculations.  The main wrinkle I could see is that most navicomputers include safety protocols to forcibly drop a ship out of hyperspace if a gravity/mass shadow from a realspace object of significant size is detected, though even that's not entirely infallible.  Of course, hyperspace in Star Wars is really just a big ball of wibbly-wobbly psuedoscience that runs on the power of plot, so the "docking in hyperspace" could probably be done, especially if the station itself has tractor beams to help escort ships in and out of the docking bays.

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My understanding is that hyperspace is achieved through motion - i.e. going faster than the speed of light - so I don't believe it would be possible even by Star Wars' loose science rules to sit "still" in hyperspace. It would have to constantly be in motion.

If you want to create a prison to be in a fixed location, but isolated from the galaxy, you might take inspiration from the Maw from the old EU and say the facility has been constructed in an area of space that is full of black holes which warp time and space around it unless one goes via a very specific route of access. Pop it in the "Unknown Regions" somewhere and you can turn up the density and extreme effects of such a cluster of black holes to whatever you need.

Edited by Kualan

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Another WEG adventure has something that laughs in the face of standard hyperspace. The Graveyard of Alderaan. Personally think it's a good adventure.

Anyway, the thing it has is a hyperspace gateway. Characters walk through and appear on a ship that is hyperspace. IIRC, it has either been in hyperspace for years or occasionally pops out and resets a course for an indeterminate amount of time. Either way, definitely worth the read IMHO.

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2 hours ago, Rimsen said:

It maybe just me, but I have hard time imagine something stopping in hyperspace. For me it's always a sense of motion. At least that's the picture the movies convey to me. So I'd go the Prison Ship instead. 

You don't need to stop to dock. You just need to be moving in the same direction at the same speed so both ships remain  stationairy relative to one another. That's how these things work in real life as well for things like in-flight refueling and basically anything to do with spaceflight and docking.

I don't think a ship would be able to dock with a stationairy object or even be stationairy in Hyperspace though. 

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10 hours ago, Edgookin said:

Under the old West End System there was a module called Otherspace and Otherspace II.  It included a realm outside both realspace and hyperspace, but accessed through a malfunctioning hyperdrive.  This could form the basis of your plans.  Check the d6Holocron for those adventures.

These were converted for FFG. I have ran them for my group.

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If you are in hyperspace, you're moving.  I believe there are canon examples of what happens if you stop moving.

So the prison could be moving at all times.  However, it would need to be resupplied, troops would need to transfer to and from, and new prisoners would need to be able to be transported to the prison.

Now, the complicated process for this would be keeping the prison moving while supply ships link up to it in hyperspace.  I believe this is doable and again believe there is canon to support it.  However, this would be risky, dangerous, and difficult to pull off on a regular basis.  It would also limit the resupply efforts.  But doing so would require matching the location, speed, etc of both ships, so it would be virtually impossible without all the info.

A much more 'realistic' option would be a prison that would hyperspace between various locations.  Hyperspace is not an immediate trip.  It can take weeks to get from one location to another, so having a prison that is virtually impossible to escape from or find and attempt a rescue effort against for weeks at a time is a highly desirable thing.  You wouldn't need that big of a security force either as each time you drop out, you could drop out at a safe location.  A prison doesn't make much sense either (as in a floating space station or large building or whatnot).  However, a retrofitted Star Destroyer would make complete sense.

Story explanation:  In an effort to better contain rebel prisoners, political prisoners, political dissidents, the Empire craves a new, more secure prison format.  Bevel Lemelisk was tasked with creating this new ultra-max prison system.  Bevel acquired several Victory I Star Destroyers that were scheduled to be decommissioned from duty and released for use by outer rim Governors.  The hanger bays along with the large storage areas designed for carrying large Imperial ground units were converted into solitary confinement prison cells.  The shield generators, missile tubes, and tractor beam projectors were removed all together.  The various turbolaser batteries were replaced with smaller laser cannons.  The concept behind the ship is that it would only briefly exist outside of hyperspace at designated safe zones where it could refuel, resupply, exchange crew, and take on new prisoners.  They would never willingly engage in combat with enemy ships, so shields, fighter escorts, turbolasers, missiles, etc were all unnecessary.  The smaller lasers in lieu of larger weapons were meant to specifically give the ships the anti-squadron ability to shoot down possible boarding craft.  Bevel assumed that even if something happened and the Rebels made an attempt against one of these prison ships, they wouldn't try to outright destroy the ship with capital ship engagements, but would attempt to board and free prisoners, so anti-ship weaponry and defense was worthless.  The removal of weapons, shields, etc also made the ship more efficient allowing it to go longer without resupply.  The main hyperspace generators were replaced with additional backup generators as the entire idea was not to be quick, but to spend as much time in hyperspace as possible.  The ships operated in a communication black out.  No communication would be sent to or from the prison barges while in hyperspace in an effort to conceal their locations.

Due to the relative safety of the ship being in hyperspace (little to no chance of escape or rescue), only a minimal crew (roughly 1500-2000) was required to man the limited weapons, patrol the cells, feed the crew/prisoners, keep the ship running etc.  This meant extra crew quarters could be turned into further storage compartments allowing the ship to again, stay 'afloat' longer.

The prison barges would travel long multi-week paths between distant, but heavily defended, Imperial outposts.  The ships would then drop out of hyperspace long enough to send and receive a burst of information (reports, interrogation results, receive orders, etc), then the ships would jump almost immediately back into hyperspace along a new route.  The routes were randomized and each barge would follow it's own randomized route.  On a tri-monthly basis the prison barges would drop out of hyperspace at a major, core world, Imperial starbase.  At this location the ship would quickly restock fuel, supplies, rotate crew, take on new prisoners, and drop off the corpses of any prisoners that did not survive the advanced interrogation techniques of the Empire.  These stops would take roughly 6 hours with roughly 1/4 of the crew rotating off the ship and being replaced.

The randomized flight pattern of the prison barges was so secure that Imperial intelligence had no idea which barge would be showing up at which location.  So prisoners awaited transfer at these major staging areas and only after they were transferred to the newly arrived prison barge did the Imperials have any idea which barge they were being transferred to.

After the fall of the Empire, these barges remained in operation for as much as a year before they stopped for resupply only to find out the Empire they served no longer existed.  Many a Rebel or political prisoner transferred to one of these prison barges were never heard of again.  As the Vics could actually carry 4 years of consumables at a time, and these ships were running skeleton crews and had even more room for storage, it's rumored that some of the prison barges are still out there, blipping out and back into hyperspace occasionally, continuing to carry on their mission for lord only knows how long...

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28 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

drop off the corpses of any prisoners that did not survive the advanced interrogation techniques of the Empire. 

You mean they wouldn’t just dump them out an airlock, letting them revert into real space and whatever remains survived the reversion just float...wherever they happened to be in deep space?

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41 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Actually, I heard that experiments were done and they never were able to figure out what happened to anything jettisoned while in Hyperspace.

If we consider the Phantom undocking from the Ghost to be jettisoned, we’ve seen what happens. It violently drops back into real space.

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One thing to consider is that we take hyperdrive speeds for granted.   Maybe speeds can be adjusted or they could just re-fit it with an extra class 14 hyperdrive.  Now trips that take other ships a day would take this ship two weeks.  That would be a good way to stay in hyperspace without having to worry about dropping in and out all over the place.

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Strategically thats not too wise, ad if someone ever breaks the random code or gets the location of arrivel they have 2 weeks to prepare.

It should move quickly, but great distance to spend more time in the hyperspace. Can circle the edge of known galaxy for example.

Edited by Rimsen

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3 hours ago, ExpandingUniverse said:

Quadrants 14-S, 13-P and 11-P (and a few others) on the galaxy map have no systems- you could have a Hyperspace Prison ship in those sectors just travelling round in a circle

Those quadrants probably have tons of systems in them, just no discovered or worthwhile systems. I mean, the map shows dozens of unnamed stars in those quadrant, so that's dozensof systems.

And the map only shows a small percentage of all mapped and colonised systems anyway. It just shows what's going to be interesting for a Star Wars RPG, not the hundreds of thousands tiny, no-name agricultural and mining colonies. 

The quadrants on the edge aren't empty, they're just unexplored.

Edited by micheldebruyn

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It depends on what exactly Hyperspace IS when it comes to something remaining in it stationary. If it's like Warp Drive in Star Trek as in going really really fast then no, staying stationary is impossible. However, if it's more like Zero Space where it's an alternate dimension of some sort which nature permits going from X to Y in the Star Wars galaxy by traveling through it, then there's no reason it couldn't aside from perhaps structures in the Star Wars galaxy not being able to be there for significant lengths of time without breaking apart.

I think with Legends it kind of splits the difference, with Hyperspace being an alternate dimension but close enough to normal or "realspace" to allow it to be possible for something going through Hyperspace to impact an object in realspace in spite of being in another dimension, thus the need for Hyperspace routes.

I don't think the rules for Hyperspace have been explored much overall in either continuity.

Edited by immortalfrieza

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49 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

I don't think the rules for Hyperspace have been explored much overall in either continuity.

That's because the rules for all of these games, are reverse-engineered from people watching the movies, and going 'ok so how can we stat that out?"  And since it's all techno-babble, first created by baby-boomer art students in the 70's, with zero scientific understanding of a fictional concept created to simply justify a scene transition from one location to the next in a massive story location (the galaxy), none of it makes any actual sense.  PLUS, all of it gets tossed out the window, if someone else makes an image in one of the films, that would contradict the "established" rules, because they weren't bothering to fact check their own narrative scene transition choices to a game system they don't care about, which forces players to further try and reverse-engineer new rules to justify this new and contradictory way that hyperspace is presented!  :D   When in reality, all hyperspace is supposed to be is "and then they moved from Scene A, to Scene B in a reasonable timeframe, because galaxy is huge."

Bottom line, there really shouldn't be any hard "rules" for how hyperspace works, and GM's should just do with it what they want, as long as they stay consistent with it, and the players are on board with this version of hyperspace.

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combine the ship that is more or less constantly in Hyper Space with the stasis technology like in Han Solo at Stars End and you wouldn't even need much people to crew the ship.

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