Corvus / Surprise Attack

[Miles C 7]

I am first player and I chose Surprise Attack. My flag ship is Corvus. How does this interact?  

I deploy my flag ship overlapping the station before deploying anything else per Surprise Attack.

After deploying fleets, can I redeploy my flag ship within my deployment zone as per Corvus? Will my flag ship still be required to overlap the station or does the  Corvus title override that?

Thanks!

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Miles C

[Miles C 7]

If Corvus can redeploy, is it’s speed restricted? 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Miles C

[Karneck 1,990]

Corvus takes place after deployment, so yes, if corvus is your flagship it can be redeployed to your deployment zone, not on the station.

Yes, Corvus takes place "after deploying fleets". While the objective speed restriction is only during "while deploying fleets".

Meaning the redeployed Corvus can set to any speed in its nav chart.

[KrisWall 966]

I think it depends on how you interpret Surprise Attack.  The specific rules in question are below.  My reading is that the entirety of the second paragraph only applies "while deploying fleets".  Corvus's effect occurs "after deploying fleets".  I would allow an opponent to redeploy Corvus anywhere in his or her deployment zone and at any speed.  HOWEVER, I can easily see the ambiguity and am not sure how I would rule as a TO at an event.  The clear "fluff" intention of the mission is that you are surprising the opposing fleet while their flagship is docked at the station.  I can see an argument where only the first sentence of the second paragraph applies "while deploying fleets" and that the other two sentences are more general restrictions that apply during the entirety of the mission.  This interpretation would allow Corvus to redeploy, but would require redeployment to a position overlapping the station and at a maximum speed of 2.

Curious to see what everyone thinks.  I think my initial interpretation is correct, but I could easily see this generating a clarifying FAQ in the future.

Surprise Attack

"Setup: The second player places the station at distance 1-5 of the first player's edge. Then place the remaining obstacles as normal.

While deploying fleets, the first player must deploy their flagship before deploying any other ships. Their flagship must overlap the station, even if the flagship extends beyond their deployment zone. The first player cannot deploy any ship at a speed greater than half of that ships maximum speed (rounded up).

After deploying fleets, the second player places 3 facedown command dials in a stack on this card.

Special Rule: At the start of the Ship Phase during the first, second, and third rounds, the second player reveals the top command dial on this card, and each of the first player's ships gains a raid token matching that dial."

Corvus

"After deploying fleets you may redeploy this ship within your deployment zone."

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by KrisWall

[Ginkapo 9,321]

[Ginkapo 9,321]

@Karneck Can I argue that redeploying Corvus creates a new instance of while deploying fleets?

[KrisWall 966]

7 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

@Karneck Can I argue that redeploying Corvus creates a new instance of while deploying fleets?

I think that's a tough argument because Corvus itself says the effect occurs "after deploying fleets".  You aren't deploying fleets again.  You're just redeploying the one ship.

I think we need FFG to weigh in on this one.

Edited October 2, 2019 by KrisWall

[Drasnighta 26,832]

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

@Karneck Can I argue that redeploying Corvus creates a new instance of while deploying fleets?

Only if Raddus does the same 

[Karneck 1,990]

3 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

@Karneck Can I argue that redeploying Corvus creates a new instance of while deploying fleets?

Short answer I'd say is "Nope".
but the Long answer I'll give,
"While Deploying fleets" is its own timing window unto its own. Much like "Before deploying fleets" and "after deploying fleets" are their own timing windows. Corvus falls solidly in the "after deploying fleets" timing window with other cards like Pryce and Bail, which have nothing to do with "while deploying fleets".

For Corvus, it is stating that it can "Redeploy" in the "after deploying fleets" timing, but still follows all other rules of deployment. Just not anything that would trigger or is triggered in "while deploying fleets".

Wording is very clear.
 

[Karneck 1,990]

3 hours ago, KrisWall said:

I think we need FFG to weigh in on this one.

I don't think it needs too. Wording and timing is very cut and dry with this card.

[Thrindal 1,295]

Its your advantage for taking Corvus as your Command ship and your opponent having Surprise Attack.  It is such a risk to take Corvus as your command ship, likely as a life boat, so if you can get lucky and be able to choose Surprise Attack as well its the advantage you get for creating your list like that.  I am not saying it would be a good list its just that you paid the price for that advantage so you should get it and I think its clear Corvus gets to redeploy in the deployment zone at whatever speed you choose.

 

[RobertK 709]

19 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

@Karneck Can I argue that redeploying Corvus creates a new instance of while deploying fleets?

If it did, then would the resulting redeployment create a new instance of after deploying fleets?

[xanderf 6,788]

**deleted per discussion**

Edited October 22, 2019 by xanderf

[Karneck 1,990]

What?

No ship can deploy at speed 0, not even this objective grants that. Unless effected by a grav well token.

Ships deploy at half speed of their nav chart

Edited October 22, 2019 by Karneck

[Lemmiwinks86 934]

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

It's not just that, though.  With Surprise Attack, not only is your flag locked down, but everyone else is set at half its speed.  Consider many typical flagships - SSDs?  MC80H?  Interdictors?  Any of these, your flagship sets up at speed 0 and every other ship of yours sets up at 1.  Enemy brings Titus along, now you've got TWO ships at zero and everyone else at 1.

Corvus just totally shuts this penalty down - speed 2 for the entire fleet, except Corvus which can set up anywhere it wants at 4.

As Karneck said, that objective doesn't make you deploy any ship at speed 0. Also it looks that you're interpreting the phrase "The first player cannot deploy any ship at a speed greater than half of that ship's maximum speed (rounded up)" as if it was referring to the flagship's speed for all of your ships, but I think that it reffers to the maximum speed of each singular ship. Meaning that even if you flag is an MC80H, if you deploy an MC30, it can be set to speed 2 without an issue.

[xanderf 6,788]

39 minutes ago, Karneck said:

What?

No ship can deploy at speed 0, not even this objective grants that. Unless effected by a grav well token.

Ships deploy at half speed of their nav chart

Ah, derp, sorry, for some reason I always think 'surprise attack' and put the grav well token on the map because who brings and Interdictor and DOESN'T take that one?

"Surprise Attack: the objective to make the Interdictor relevant again!"

[xanderf 6,788]

8 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Also it looks that you're interpreting the phrase "The first player cannot deploy any ship at a speed greater than half of that ship's maximum speed (rounded up)" as if it was referring to the flagship's speed for all of your ships, but I think that it reffers to the maximum speed of each singular ship. Meaning that even if you flag is an MC80H, if you deploy an MC30, it can be set to speed 2 without an issue.

EDIT: Nevermind earlier edit, this is probably correct.  After all, if they meant the flagship be  used, they could just have said '...the flagship's top speed...' instead of '...that ship's...' and it would still fit and be clearer.  Each ship's nav dial, then.

Definitely does reduce the value of Corvus a lot, then.

Edited October 22, 2019 by xanderf

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

On 10/2/2019 at 10:52 PM, Drasnighta said:

Only if Raddus does the same 

Btw I guess Raddus can get away from this trap, am I right?

[Karneck 1,990]

Only if he's on a ship tucked away by Profundity.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Karneck

[The Jabbawookie 5,612]

19 minutes ago, Karneck said:

Only if he's on a ship tucked away by Profundity.

Reminds me of those fish that keep their young in their mouth to protect them...

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

1 hour ago, Karneck said:

Only if he's on a ship tucked away by Profundity.

Lol I dunno why I remember him as doing his thing onto himself. Thanks.