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RyantheFett

Look at the new ships First Order/Resistance (somewhat spoilery??)

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On 9/28/2019 at 3:48 AM, eMeM said:

I love that TIE Silencer was too original and confusing for the sequels so they swapped the cockpit for a standard TIE ball.

Wait, is that the real reason why we have Kylo's Tie Fighter and not the Tie Silencer? Source?

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10 minutes ago, FastWalker said:
On 9/28/2019 at 4:48 AM, eMeM said:

I love that TIE Silencer was too original and confusing for the sequels so they swapped the cockpit for a standard TIE ball.

Wait, is that the real reason why we have Kylo's Tie Fighter and not the Tie Silencer? Source?

Pretty sure that is throwing shade at Disney for this Shadow series seeming like a really weird move. The Silence and the special forces design are pretty interesting  and the whispers seem to just replace them for reasons?  I like the Sith fighter, but I can't wait to see to see the explanation on why the other ships exist at all.

 

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19 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

seem to just replace them for reasons?

Merchandising!

Its to sell more toys. Star Wars has always been about that. Its why we have 5 million different storm trooper armors, no one ever drives the same kind of speeder and new spaceships every movie. 

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3 hours ago, kris40k said:

Merchandising!

Its to sell more toys. Star Wars has always been about that. Its why we have 5 million different storm trooper armors, no one ever drives the same kind of speeder and new spaceships every movie. 

Bingo. It's not just a Disney thing either, as some horribly believe.

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6 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

No, no I agree! But if this is truly the same frame... That alone saves it.

It would need to be fairly heavily retrofited to be a refit, but it seems like a new Y-Wing model, especially since its model number is the BTA-NR2 rather than BTL-A4. 

 

zWqQJru.pngImage result for y-wing

EFpnaA3W4AAUtMF.jpgImage result for y-wing top down

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On 9/27/2019 at 10:59 PM, dsul413 said:

I see logical evolutions of previous designs and new designs here. What's the issue?

theyre derivative without adding to the original designs.   The original trilogy, second trilogy, lucas arts games, AND Rogue one all added so many beautiful ship designs they hardly had room to repeat any. This current trilogy has given us the quadjumper, resistance bomber, and resistance transport... but the friggin Nu-metal order has nothin. Do we need every geometric shape of tie?

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9 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

It would need to be fairly heavily retrofited to be a refit, but it seems like a new Y-Wing model, especially since its model number is the BTA-NR2 rather than BTL-A4. 

 

zWqQJru.pngImage result for y-wing

EFpnaA3W4AAUtMF.jpgImage result for y-wing top down

Remember, you're talking about a ship that used to look like this.
latest?cb=20090310063841
And that IS the same model as the BTL-A4. That's been stated several times by the team.

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2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

theyre derivative without adding to the original designs.   The original trilogy, second trilogy, lucas arts games, AND Rogue one all added so many beautiful ship designs they hardly had room to repeat any. This current trilogy has given us the quadjumper, resistance bomber, and resistance transport... but the friggin Nu-metal order has nothin. Do we need every geometric shape of tie?

I’ll take what we have over the EU TIEs that came out after the OT. Want to talk geometric shapes? These have shapes. 

Other than the Clawcraft, not a lot of elegant designs. I actually think something like the SF is an elegant evolution of the TIE/LN. the FO is derivative externally but the workshop book does a nice job of demonstrating the internal changes and it doesn’t bother me. The new designs may add to it, we shall see; the Silencer was a very elegant change to the TIE series.

Do we want designs that just “add to” the original designs? Do we want all fresh designs? But those can’t be different geometric shapes or they’re not complex enough? I’m not sure what the right answer is, but we as fandom ping across it so hard.

There is a stronger argument for the Resistance not adding much with the T-70 and RZ-2, but it also makes perfect sense in canon that those are updates to existing designs and are a little bit older. The T-85 was the significant design change for sure.

8CE5582B-A9E1-4777-9660-7C7D824A72F8.jpeg

Edited by dsul413

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On 9/27/2019 at 7:23 PM, melminiatures said:

Seems curious that the images of Kylo's TIE don't have the turret that it has in the trailer, yet somehow the TIE Whisper (which apparently it's not Kylo's TIE) does.

pic4698277.jpg

This looks to be the TIE Whisper main ball that has been upgraded with the Silencer's wing configuration. This thing is kinda nuts. The Silencer's weapon systems were in it's "wings", so this thing just seems to have all of the weapons of both ships. So...5 dice primary with 2 force? Feels good. Lasts 3 rounds before it runs out of power...Feels bad?

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8 minutes ago, BDrafty said:

This looks to be the TIE Whisper main ball that has been upgraded with the Silencer's wing configuration. This thing is kinda nuts. The Silencer's weapon systems were in it's "wings", so this thing just seems to have all of the weapons of both ships. So...5 dice primary with 2 force? Feels good. Lasts 3 rounds before it runs out of power...Feels bad?

Dunno, but Kylo Ren's is entirely a unique ship... And quite frankly, much scarier than the TIE/VN when you consider everything it can actually do.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Dunno, but Kylo Ren's is entirely a unique ship... And quite frankly, much scarier than the TIE/VN when you consider everything it can actually do.

I mean...just put him in a defender and call it a list. Because, yeah, it is way scarier than the TIE/(This isn't even my final form)VN.

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14 minutes ago, BDrafty said:

I mean...just put him in a defender and call it a list. Because, yeah, it is way scarier than the TIE/(This isn't even my final form)VN.

I'm glad I fly First Order as well as The Resistance.

Because man, I'd feel horrible ONLY ever getting to go up against Supreme Leader Kylo Ren. Also, we have him in all of his forms.

Fighterless crew on an Upsilon.
Fighterful pilot on a prototype.
SUPREME LEADER KYLO REN, LONG MAY HE REIGN, IN THE SCARIEST TIE FIGHTER EVER MADE.

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19 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

I will post the B-wings as soon as any pictures of them come up.

If and when you do, you'll be my Hero.  BWings are awesome and should be shared with everyone.

I'm looking forward seeing most of these ships in XWing.  What I'm mostly anticipating seeing more is the T85.  Sadly, I don't think it'll be in Episode 9.

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1 hour ago, FastWalker said:

If and when you do, you'll be my Hero.  BWings are awesome and should be shared with everyone.

I'm looking forward seeing most of these ships in XWing.  What I'm mostly anticipating seeing more is the T85.  Sadly, I don't think it'll be in Episode 9.

Yeah, I'm just not seeing the T-85 existing in Episode IX

Unless Rey gets one.

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On 9/27/2019 at 4:43 PM, KiraYamatoSF said:

Hm that turret looks like it won't be able to swing forward. Could present an idea for a ship ability for turrets.

Also the Tie Whisper is used for multiple types of Ties, not sure if thats a mistake or the ties with that cockpit piece had some special properties.

Stealth

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4 hours ago, dsul413 said:

I’ll take what we have over the EU TIEs that came out after the OT. Want to talk geometric shapes? These have shapes. 

Other than the Clawcraft, not a lot of elegant designs. I actually think something like the SF is an elegant evolution of the TIE/LN. the FO is derivative externally but the workshop book does a nice job of demonstrating the internal changes and it doesn’t bother me. The new designs may add to it, we shall see; the Silencer was a very elegant change to the TIE series.

Do we want designs that just “add to” the original designs? Do we want all fresh designs? But those can’t be different geometric shapes or they’re not complex enough? I’m not sure what the right answer is, but we as fandom ping across it so hard.

There is a stronger argument for the Resistance not adding much with the T-70 and RZ-2, but it also makes perfect sense in canon that those are updates to existing designs and are a little bit older. The T-85 was the significant design change for sure.

8CE5582B-A9E1-4777-9660-7C7D824A72F8.jpeg

I really like the design of the new Resistance ships. Clear update of older models(but nothing crazy), keep the iconic design, and show how technology slowly advances in this setting. The EU and their crazy amount of TIEs I always found to be pretty funny and often bad in some cases. So maybe its a case of moderation so far in Canon (lol 40 different TIEs) or that I always been team Rebels and I am super bias.

Now thinking about it the silencer may classified as a prototype and the whisper versions may be the clear upgrade of the First Order TIE & special forces TIE. I would have rathered them  given us a clear movie version of the bomber and the interceptor, but I guess that is the point of Resistance now.

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10 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Remember, you're talking about a ship that used to look like this.
latest?cb=20090310063841
And that IS the same model as the BTL-A4. That's been stated several times by the team.

Yea, but the BTL-A4 is more or less the BTL-B minus most of the armor plating, removing the end segment from the nacelles and altering the cabin whereas the BTA-NR2's frame is fairly altered compared to the BTL-A4 sure it has the minor understandable changes like the altered cockpit and turret, longer nacelles, but the altered frame is notably different from the BTL-A4's. 

3 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

I really like the design of the new Resistance ships. Clear update of older models(but nothing crazy), keep the iconic design, and show how technology slowly advances in this setting.

But the ships are advancing very slowly compared to what came before, we have the ARC-170 during the Clone Wars and 19 years later we get the T-65 X-Wing but 30 years later we get the T-70 X-Wing? It sure is not nearly as much of a change there.  

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5 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Yea, but the BTL-A4 is more or less the BTL-B minus most of the armor plating, removing the end segment from the nacelles and altering the cabin whereas the BTA-NR2's frame is fairly altered compared to the BTL-A4 sure it has the minor understandable changes like the altered cockpit and turret, longer nacelles, but the altered frame is notably different from the BTL-A4's. 

But the ships are advancing very slowly compared to what came before, we have the ARC-170 during the Clone Wars and 19 years later we get the T-65 X-Wing but 30 years later we get the T-70 X-Wing? It sure is not nearly as much of a change there.  

Yes but check this out.
EFpnaA3W4AAUtMF.jpg
"WORKHORSE STARFIGHTER IN USE SINCE THE CLONE WARS"
So
you know
it's the one.

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6 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Yea, but the BTL-A4 is more or less the BTL-B minus most of the armor plating, removing the end segment from the nacelles and altering the cabin whereas the BTA-NR2's frame is fairly altered compared to the BTL-A4 sure it has the minor understandable changes like the altered cockpit and turret, longer nacelles, but the altered frame is notably different from the BTL-A4's. 

But the ships are advancing very slowly compared to what came before, we have the ARC-170 during the Clone Wars and 19 years later we get the T-65 X-Wing but 30 years later we get the T-70 X-Wing? It sure is not nearly as much of a change there.  

The first variants of the P-51 hit the field in 1942. The F-15A first flew in 1972, 30 years later. Then, 34 years later, the F-35 flies its first flight in 2006. If we just look at the aircraft exterior, no one would think that the time differences between these aircraft are the same.

We don't see drastic changes in flight tech across the Star Wars universe, mostly just aesthetic changes. Tactics, doctrine, etc. could easily be the difference in fighter design.

Edited by dsul413

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6 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

But the ships are advancing very slowly compared to what came before, we have the ARC-170 during the Clone Wars and 19 years later we get the T-65 X-Wing but 30 years later we get the T-70 X-Wing? It sure is not nearly as much of a change there. 

 

In 1938 we had the first jet aircraft, with the first jet fighters appearing in 1942 . In 1961, 19 years later, we had jets like the F-4 Phantom, Dassault Mirage, MiG-21, and Su-15. All of which were still in active front line service in 1981, and some of which are still in service today. And the jets most countries have in service now, 40+ years later, with a few exceptions, were designed in the late 60's, first produced in the 70's, and have just been getting engine and electronics upgrades every decade or so. The F-16 first flew in 1974, and it's still one of the US front line aircraft in 2019. That's 45 years. It's like the Y-Wing of the real world.

 

It isn't uncommon for there to be giant leaps in technology(prequels/Clone Wars), that then continues in new and better ways as the tech gets further refined(original trilogy), but then stagnates for a few decades with just incremental upgrades to existing designs because you've pretty much squeezed everything out of it that you can without some radical new tech shift(new trilogy).

 

Edit: bah, semi-ninja'd while I was typing this up...

Edited by unruly

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8 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Yea, but the BTL-A4 is more or less the BTL-B minus most of the armor plating, removing the end segment from the nacelles and altering the cabin whereas the BTA-NR2's frame is fairly altered compared to the BTL-A4 sure it has the minor understandable changes like the altered cockpit and turret, longer nacelles, but the altered frame is notably different from the BTL-A4's. 

Besides cockpit, turret, and cannons, the engines are completely different, it's not just armor plating. Just look at the exhaust plume, where it originates.  So either there is an "official" factory BTL-A4 variant (and Rebels shows there is something between BTL-B and Rebel A4) or the Alliance designed and manufactured new engines, which I don't have a problem with, hidden shipyards aren't a crazy idea on a galactic scale, but at this point talking about "the same model" (but with different weapons, crew, cockpit, armor, and engines) is just splitting hairs.

 

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

"WORKHORSE STARFIGHTER IN USE SINCE THE CLONE WARS"
So
you know
it's the one.

Yah, just like F-16 is a workhorse fighter in use since the 70ies. Doesn't mean modern F-16s are literally refurbished F-16A built in 1974. BTL-B is a distinct variant since forever in both Legends and Canon.

Edited by eMeM

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