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ForceSensitive

N-1's what do?

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If you're running all-N1s, I'd take a long hard look at the handmaidens, because they can greatly increase the durability of your squad. I'd lean away from Padme, as she is pretty mediocre without juke and luminara to help her out, and the N1 isn't great at keeping arc on things.

Off the top of my head, you can build  a decent ani and ric and fit in two handmaidens with them:

Naboo Handmaiden (44)
Naboo Handmaiden (44)
Ric Olie
, Daredevil, Advanced Sensors (55)
Anakin Skywalker, Passive Sensors, Proton Torpedoes (57)
Total: 200

If you want to change it up, you can change the Ric loadout since he's not going to get as much value from advanced daredevil without a nearby sense jedi:

Naboo Handmaiden (44)
Naboo Handmaiden (44)
Ric Olie
, Crack shot, R2 Astromech (47)
Anakin Skywalker, Passive Sensors, Proton Torpedoes, Intimidation, R2 Astromech (64)
Total: 199

I'd also be looking at the 4x passive proton bravos that others have mentioned.

 

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I think R2 astromechs are the single staple card for N1. The hull/shield ratio for the ship is ideal to get maximum value out of regen. 

I like that second list @Gadwag just ... need to remember that the Handmaiden condition is unique, so even with two handmaidens, you can only protect one other ship. (That said, it makes that other ship nigh on unkillable)

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12 hours ago, Dreadai said:

I think R2 astromechs are the single staple card for N1. The hull/shield ratio for the ship is ideal to get maximum value out of regen. 

I like that second list @Gadwag just ... need to remember that the Handmaiden condition is unique, so even with two handmaidens, you can only protect one other ship. (That said, it makes that other ship nigh on unkillable)

But then they just kill the maidens, and down go a quarter of your list each time. And since evade doesn't add results, even if they want to focus the decoyed ship, they likely can. Just have to deal five past five. If they throw ten hits at it, they probably got it. This has been my experience with them anyway. 

Like even when I tried the 3xTorpBravo+Ric, as much as you think it is a lot of jousting power, it's really not. Average damage from the bravo with only one mod is still only 3. You can totally just joust me and I lose. It looks scary, sure. But after the first time u played it every one saw right through it. So I'm pretty leery to try straight four Bravo's. But we'll see.

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I have flown a couple pure n-1 lists, and my favorite so far is anakin with 3 init 1 guys all with torpedoes and passive sensors.  That one was my favorite, my second favorite was 5 of them with passive sensors and random Astromech a.  I tried the Naboo handmaidens and did not like them at all.  Anakin is a really good ship, he has been the best because of his barrel roll pre move.  Hard to predict.

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Tried again tonight. Mostly, more stress testing. No pun intended. List this time was 

Couples night (198/200)
======================
Naboo Royal N-1: Padmé Amidala (45 + 13)
    + Juke (7)
    + Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Naboo Royal N-1: Anakin Skywalker (41 + 13)
    + Juke (7)
    + Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (34 + 9)
    + Passive Sensors (3)
    + Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (34 + 9)
    + Passive Sensors (3)
    + Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)

Goal was to have numbers, and teeth, and still be able to throw a wrench in things. Long story short, failed to kill anything. Finn/shuttle survived two Torpedoes and a stray shot from Padme all in the same round. Mostly just bad luck. Survived at one hull. Padme did not stop it's shenanigans enough to matter. Read, did not stop them at all.

Died way too fast. Still kept running into issues like if I only had X this wouldn't be that bad. Like no straight K turn it sloop, poor action setup, poor statline. Was frustrating to be up against things that seem to cover their open weakness at least a little. Like resistance As. 

We agreed that the chassis kind of wants to be this long pass and come back type, but by the end of the game even they agreed the ship can not turn around in any effective way compared to every other ship. 

I did get two of the Torpedoes off, both with full mods. One of Ani and the other from a bravo. Felt good about that, even if Ani whiffed to 3 net 1. I don't think Pad needed one, I think she had too much other work to do trying to make sure what Torpedoes/shots did launch actually worked, even though she didn't actually change those outcomes at all. 

Want much of a test as predicted I evaporated pretty fast after the initial run.

On a side note. I remembered there was a Naboo bomber that showed up in a video game. If I got that, maybe I could still run a sub-faction pure list and be okay? Maybe?

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26 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

even though she didn't actually change those outcomes at all

I ran the maths a while back, and Padme is really not worth it unless you have lumi (on defense) and juke (on offense, and not just on padme). I'd skip her.

28 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

I did get two of the Torpedoes off, both with full mods.

I'd give proton torpedoes (not advanced) a try. They cost more but they give you a much larger threat area (r1-3 is all dangerous, whereas r2-3 in your list is just a peashooter)

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@gadwagBefore this game there were about 9 games with regular protons and passive sensors or protons on aces and FCS. Problem with them was you still only average three damage per shot, even when I got five off a game, because you only every get one mod. Yeah bigger threat bubble, but ironically as the math for it's a lesser threat. If you're blending in another ship type, maybe. If you can get them a focus like someone earlier mentioned with battle mediation Obi. But currently the build challenge is to not use those.

If you move up and passive, then have a chance at a lock in the initial approach, then you pretty much have to fire it with lock only. Because the turn after there's no way you'll still be at 2-3. You'll be at range one at best, and sacrificing Full Throttle to get it if you even try for that. You can try and run past then and come back, to fire on the second pass but then you're just shooting at 2 primes until you come back, and not doing anything. Then you can only T-roll, and to even destress you have to come back at bank 2. By which time they probably already turned around as well and your back to range one again. That's assuming you haven't been killed yet. I have consistently list a ship just trying to get it away because of its inability to turn and re-engage.

Plasmas weren't much better if anyone was wondering. Three die trying to hit a Jedi? Hahahah riiiiiggghht.

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2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

you pretty much have to fire it with lock only

This is a big weakness of the passive torp, yeah. It makes the torp a more appealing option on anakin, though.

I think you've hit the nail on the head - the ship just isn't maneuverable or hard hitting enough to make a whole squad. You get good defense from full throttle, but when you have to spend a few turns out of the fight every pass that doesn't help much.

 

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Right? Even the 'good' defense from full throttle isn't that good really. With only two agility to start, and two Shields in front of three hull, all it really does is give back a tiny bit of consistency, and slow death on your long turn around. Full throttle works on the Defender by magnifying it's dial and already strong defense. They were designed for each other. It doesn't work on this thing, this thing is really wanting to do something else.

I'm curious if this was even the original ability the ship was supposed to have. Like, I wonder if there was another ability they started with and cut in playtest, and for lack of time just slapped this on. /Tinfoilhat

We had some fun theory creating some other things for it as what-ifs. I felt that after a dozen plus games with nothing but before starting to theory craft, I'd at least not be a total whiny a#$.

It spins! "Dual Roll Gyros: after you perform an action, you may perform a red barrel roll."

My other car is a N-1! "Smooth Ride: after you complete a speed 3 or higher maneuver, perform a Focus action."

Everything's shiny captain! "Chromium Plating: when defending against an attack in your front Arc, you may change one focus to an Evade."

Other than that we just threw around dial changes ideas. Like it's a fast ship, it should be able to do moves other fast ships can. More blue straights, any difficulty 1-hard, any blue hard turns at all, at least another type of red special maneuver. Oh and linked actions. 

Anyway, back to the drawing board. I'm going to play one more straight of these but then I'm going to palette cleanse with the republic Y's I haven't touched yet.

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I've found this to be pretty fun and thematic. Decoyed on Padme, keep moving FAST for those evade tokens, R2s to regen after attack runs.

 

Padmé Amidala (45)
Juke (7)
Passive Sensors (3)
R2 Astromech (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Naboo Handmaiden (44)
Passive Sensors (3)
R2 Astromech (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Naboo Handmaiden (44)
Passive Sensors (3)
R2 Astromech (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

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That was my first list with them too! It was the one I mentioned in the OP. Great minds think alike 😁 It actually won it's first time out with me, which got my hopes up. I also really loved the theme. I'm super big on that. But I only won because my opponent got silly and tried to joust it with only his big hitter and nothing else. After that he just crumpled. He still took down one though. The rematch and following game both lost and sealed it for me as now that everyone knew the trick. I never got it to work out like that again.🙄

Most people eventually realize they can just joust back and init kill you for big profit. They knock out a maiden and now you don't have enough to score a kill back in trade without some serious luck.

But man did I get a kick out of that flavor. Wish we had Captain Panaka. 

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13 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

That was my first list with them too! It was the one I mentioned in the OP. Great minds think alike 😁 It actually won it's first time out with me, which got my hopes up. I also really loved the theme. I'm super big on that. But I only won because my opponent got silly and tried to joust it with only his big hitter and nothing else. After that he just crumpled. He still took down one though. The rematch and following game both lost and sealed it for me as now that everyone knew the trick. I never got it to work out like that again.🙄

Most people eventually realize they can just joust back and init kill you for big profit. They knock out a maiden and now you don't have enough to score a kill back in trade without some serious luck.

But man did I get a kick out of that flavor. Wish we had Captain Panaka. 

Oh, yeah, for sure. I don't win with it, but man the Star Warsy goodness!

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Idk if FT is just "a little bit of consistency'. Anakin in particular is the poster child of why you shouldn't let force users evade (apart from the v1, apparently)

With r2 complimenting their zoom-zoom playstyle, the n1 is pretty beefy. At least, beefier than the Delta B (assuming Anakin, otherwise it's just beefier for one shot). They're phantom level sturdy, which is pretty dang decent.

One thing to get used to, though, is not overcrutching on ft. As noted, it makes you predictable and makes opponents more difficult to get arcs on. Once you know who's taking fire, you can afford to be a little frisky with your other n1s. 

 

Something to try, mix of offense and defense

The doughnut slayer Pmenace

(41) Anakin Skywalker [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(4) R2 Astromech
(3) Passive Sensors
(1) Crack Shot
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 62

(34) Bravo Flight Officer [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(5) R2-C4
(3) Passive Sensors
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 55

(34) Bravo Flight Officer [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
Points: 34

(42) Ric Olié [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(4) R2 Astromech
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 47

Total points: 198

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Finally got sorta kinda somewhere. Won twice back to back tonight with this list. Then I got here to talk about and realized it was 3 points over the limit thanks to some confusion in some last minute shuffling around of Upgrade cards. FML. I will be sure to inform my opponent of the two wins he should be credited. I think I would have won anyway all things considered, but that's just in bad taste.

'Lil Ani and the Bravo's (203/200)
=================================
Naboo Royal N-1: Anakin Skywalker (41 + 18)
    + Elusive (3)
    + Fire-Control System (2)
    + Plasma Torpedoes (9)
    + R2 Astromech (4)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (34 + 13)
    + Passive Sensors (3)
    + Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
    + R2 Astromech (4)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (34 + 13)
    + Passive Sensors (3)
    + Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
    + R2 Astromech (4)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (34 + 16)
    + Passive Sensors (3)
    + Plasma Torpedoes (9)
    + R2 Astromech (4)

 

Takeaways that matter...

Advanced Protons is definitely the way to go on a Bravo. Scatter to approach from multiple angles, Set up to passive lock on the initial engagement, take your crap shots that weren't going to be good anyway, unexpectedly slow roll in to focus and second round get a few torps full mods at close on hopefully key targets. Torps that don't get used are now a late game threat. Disengage and get your whole squad back a few Shields. Yes, they will probably kill one, but that's going to happen anyway so sorry.

Elusive is still awful. I took it in more than a few versions while doing this experiment, in several combinations, and it's been just the pits every time. I thought with Ani this time at least, and a Force, it would return a psuedo evade to me when I did the 3T-roll that kills your own ship ability. Kind of a trade back to get that survivability and extra mods. Never works. Think of all the times I've used it, it got me like 2 evades over more than a dozen games? And I'd activate it a few times a game so it wasn't for lack of opportunity. Your only getting one reroll, on a green. I don't really know what I was expecting. But I don't think I take this again unless it's free. And since it didn't do anything for me all night, and I was 3 points over build, I honestly discount this. 

Plasmas NEED double mods. So they need a Force user. The 3 firepower is a real drag. Ani could do work with them and did. Felt pretty good about that.

Fire control. Meh. I think it was relevant once all night on these? Between only needing this on the Torpedoes realistically at which point sending the lock is not that big a deal. And your primary never really matters anyway unless your close, and I rarely had a Target in common from the torp threat to what I needed to shoot at close, so the lock was never at the right thing to use FCS. It just didn't matter. Don't really know what else to put there though for 2pts.

Other than that, same old frustrations. It's like I'm halfway to having an option, and then the chassis is all like nah fam, I ain't about that good stuff. So this point, I think I'm starting at the first ship you might need a title to fix. Sure, they could drop the cost, but it's just not interesting.

Oh and Juke is a trap. Not my words, one of the other local guys. He's right. I should have listened to him earlier. Without a native Evade it makes really no sense to try and take it.

I think my biggest letdown with it consistently is that you read it, you look at it, you look at it's dial, and your led to believe it's a fast ship... And then it isn't. It only has two blue straights, it has a slow red turnabout that aims off to a side, it can't 1-hard at all, no linkable reposition trick in sight. And then you only roll 2 agility! Like WTFORCE? 

It feels a lot like flying an old X-wing in maneuvering, honestly. Except I'd rather have the X's k-turn.  Anyway maybe time to actually go play some actually good ships again.

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6 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I think my biggest letdown with it consistently is that you read it, you look at it, you look at it's dial, and your led to believe it's a fast ship... And then it isn't. It only has two blue straights, it has a slow red turnabout that aims off to a side, it can't 1-hard at all, no linkable reposition trick in sight. And then you only roll 2 agility! Like WTFORCE? 

Like it is a fast ship ... it's got a 1 straight and a 5 straight ... it's not a nimble interceptor, it is clearly designed to be flown fast and not stressing itself. It's got a good, not great dial, though those blue 3 banks are a godsend. How many people forget that being able to go that fast, on a bank to clear stress is something that never existed before the RZ-2?

I'm having a great time flying N1s in combo lists ... remembering to fly them to the dial and ability that they have means they are a lot more powerful than people think.

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2 hours ago, Dreadai said:

Like it is a fast ship ... it's got a 1 straight and a 5 straight ... it's not a nimble interceptor, it is clearly designed to be flown fast and not stressing itself. It's got a good, not great dial, though those blue 3 banks are a godsend. How many people forget that being able to go that fast, on a bank to clear stress is something that never existed before the RZ-2?

It's fast....it just struggles to turn corners. It's very much like a TIE defender (the other Full Throttle ship) in that count.

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 4:32 PM, ficklegreendice said:

Idk if FT is just "a little bit of consistency'. Anakin in particular is the poster child of why you shouldn't let force users evade (apart from the v1, apparently)

Indeed. Anakin may also struggle to do much damage without torpedoes but point for point he's a pain in the backside to kill!

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 9:37 PM, ForceSensitive said:

And since evade doesn't add results, even if they want to focus the decoyed ship, they likely can.

Just an observation - since we're primarily discussing pure N-1 squads, yes they do.

For a Decoyed N-1 specifically, a Handmaiden can spend an evade to add an evade result, meaning that with two wingmaidens, an N-1 moving at speed can in theory generate three evade results out of two blank dice.

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I've still got a 200 point Anakin list in my builder to try ... using handmaidens to ferry him to endgame... I just worry it won't be able to do enough damage on the way there. 

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@ForceSensitive so curious have you just thought about 5 Bravo’s with either R4’s and a couple with torps or 5 with Collision Detectors? You’re into that mass where you can block effectively enough to get yourself into and out things. The collision detectors could allow for really unexpected moves while saving you FT and Focus/Roll/Boost as needed. It becomes a loose swarm that doesn’t joust so much as it circles and cuts across your flanks.

Edited by Ronu

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1 hour ago, Ronu said:

@ForceSensitive so curious have you just thought about 5 Bravo’s with either R4’s and a couple with torps or 5 with Collision Detectors? You’re into that mass where you can block effectively enough to get yourself into and out things. The collision detectors could allow for really unexpected moves while saving you FT and Focus/Roll/Boost as needed. It becomes a loose swarm that doesn’t joust so much as it circles and cuts across your flanks.

Rather than 'a couple' of torpedoes, in theory you could pack 5 all with advanced proton torpedoes. I'm not sure how good a plan it is, but range 1 ordnance generally avoids the initiative/target lock problem, and you only need to actually get shots off with one or two of them to be really threatening.

R2s and Fire Control might work, too; once you've got a lock, you can stick to green tokens a-go-go, and being able to break off whoever's hurt to recover shields means they should do pretty well in an attrition fight. You haven't the area-coverage of 5 TIE/sf. though.

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I know I said I was done with them, but I did them again anyway. Won two more games with the current version corrected to the right points of course by dropping elusive. But doin me a heckn concerned it was so close. My opponent was just breaking into the game too so there were a lot of times in both games where a more experienced player would have done something different, and I'm sure have radically alerted the result. There were more than a few heavy sighs of relief when he'd needlessly break off and I'd get around with one that should have been dead to rights. And I was just up against some generic ships thrown out there to have a good time. And it was uphill the whole way.

@Ronu I'd only given it a little thought. It's worth a shot at least I suppose. Two with passive torps, three with... Something? I'll take one for the team and be the idiot who owns 5 of them 😝

@Dreadai and @Magnus Grendel three blue bank is a great thing... On any other ship. As you point out, you really don't want to stress these guys unless it's under very ideal circumstances, for very good reasons. The only way they even can get stressed is off their T-rolls. Again, no linked actions. No pilot abilities that cause stress, no real usable elite skills that interact with stress. It would be great if you did. As it is, it's mostly pointless. Sure, you'll do 3-banks all day with it. But you'll clear stress like twice, maybe? I think when you fly them you'll see what I mean. It's great on paper, but on this thing is just not that big a deal.

Especially if you do the wingmaidens. There are so many conditions to getting those to even work as is, that I fear you may be disappointed. They have to be in Arc of the attack. Have to have successfully completed a three plus speed without stress. When you put it on the table it means you basically have to fly in formation and predictably at that. In general, they get one turn. Either the initial engagement at long, or the second one at close. And then they just init kill the wingmaiden since for itself it only has a regular defense, and your down a ship. 

You could try weaving them in and around and blocking with I-1, but if you miss the block they can reposition to not have you as a Target and so much for decoy. And then your not likely to have any of them in the same spot close enough to trigger their decoy again for awhile as they have those long sweeping turns to come back in. If they had native Evade on the action bar? Maybe they would make sense. If they could take Debris Gambit? Again, Maybe. But that won't be till at least next year, and they might not make that change.

Also if you go up against maidens, friendly advice, just kill the maidens. Gun for them and knock one down in the initial and you'll already be up at least 44 points. They will burn if you shoot them just fine. And at I-1 you'll not have to fear any reprisal if you get the kill. It's basically the old Biggs, and the same tactics apply.

You know what will be fun with decoyed? Epic. It just says other ship, so it's legal as far as I know? Escort your CR-90 around and hand it two free evades each turn.😲 Maybe they actually make the Naboo diplomatic barge and you can have four docking N-1'S? 🤔 I'd be down.

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2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

@Ronu I'd only given it a little thought. It's worth a shot at least I suppose. Two with passive torps, three with... Something? I'll take one for the team and be the idiot who owns 5 of them 😝

So it’s 170 for the base ships. I still personally think you get the most out of Collision Detectors or even R4’s myself fighting in a swarm. Based entirely on the facts that I know other swarms wish they had those types of options. You know how you best fly them by now, One consideration is this one or two with torps becomes targets if they are all kitted the same or similarly it’s harder to stay focused on one and easier for you to swap in and out as there is no real priority threat.

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Be dumb to have Annie go up on points. I 4 and 2-die primary? Yeah, he's good.

Padme could come down. Her gimmick makes her theoretically more offensively powerful (with juke), so having her also hit 41 seems fair

And since maidens can't be more expensive than freaking padme, 41-40

Edited by ficklegreendice

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19 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I think when you fly them you'll see what I mean. It's great on paper, but on this thing is just not that big a deal.

Weird thing to say. Do you think we haven’t been flying them? I’ve had 4-5 games a week with at least one, usually more N1 on the table. 
you seem to be trying to use the N1 as an interceptor when it isn’t one. There’s plenty of value in the ship if you put some thought into the ship as a chassis and not try to jam it into a role better filled by another ship type. 

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