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ForceSensitive

N-1's what do?

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Trying stubbornly to make a pure N-1 list work. Started with Padme-maidens to get the gist. Then three Ace's to go crazy, then a different tri-ace, then the Ace-generic combinations, and devolved that into several variations. Some successful results and individual events, overall. Lots of losses.  I'm getting really frustrated with the lack of solid strength components to capitalize on. Feels like every time I expect to get a strong point out of it as a ship, I just ...don't have one?

Like, just to go across the bar, okay I have 2 attack. Mos Def not great, but hey torps. So I'm a torp carrier? At min well over 40pt? Woof. okay what else I got. There's got to be a trick.

Agility 2. Alright, not great, but hey that Full throttle right? Okay... But it's not like Defender level full throttle. I HAVE to go forward, no white K/S/T. Seems fair at least. And of the maneuvers that are at least blue at that 3+speed are... Two. I can 3 bank or straight at blue. And if heaven forbid I need to do a T-roll, it turns off FT, and after said T-roll I HAVE to go fast again.. So I HAVE to go fast as much as I can, and I HAVE to go forward ish. And then there's still only 2 agility dice to pick from for the Evade. Well c$#@, at least it's something. Not ideal but... Okay, what else I got?

3 hull? Okay, not bad really. 2 Shields? Okay, respectable. Actions and action economy/tricks then?

Well... No, not as much. No linked actions. But F/TL standard fare to start. Yeah well okay that's standard. Barrel roll and Boost! Neat! Love it! Oh right, no links for those, crud. Oh and still not an interceptor like maneuverability, read no blue turns. Wai wha? What the actual heck am I?

So what your saying is, I have a sub par body, defense array, attack options, action setup, and incongruent dial to all of it. Okay I got to be missing something. Upgrades then?

Sensors slot. OHHHH. Okay I think I get it now. AdvSen, of course, how silly of me. Oh wait that... turns... Off... Full throttle? Aww geeze okay I'll... link... Nothing. Right. Got it. Cool T-roll though! Okay that's neat. Always love actions, especially repositions, before red moves! ... Oh right it's the 3troll that turns off my free Evade action anyway with a stress. And then I have to go fast to clear stress and can't use the AdvSen before that. Ef. Side note, I have never been in love with t-rolls anyway. Okay there's got to be something.

Astromech! Of course! It all makes... Wait what? R4:  you don't entirely suck after you T-roll. Okay. 2pts. Helps right? 2pts/ship. Uhhhh, I ran out of points just getting to be able to kill things in a reasonable amount of time. And I started at 38. I don't suppose Watto is running a special is he? *Looksthrough rest of Droid list* Ewww. 5pts why you hate me?

Okay. Let's get back to what has succeeded in the past. Like sure, Ric can be a kinda pocket Ace. Some folks have used little Annie to good effect. They all needed other ships to do it in the list though. Am I stuck unable to run these straight? Or just waiting on a points change? That make me so sad. So what have you all gotten to work? Cuz I got not a lot.

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10 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

Decoy Padme, she's easier to catch and Ric has his ability to help him defensively.

Agreed, and while the condition is unique - both Handmaidens still feed it evade tokens, so Padme is going to have a pile of evades to work through.

I'd focus on flying her with her Handmaidens, and spend the rest buffing Ric to fly solo.  (I could even see an argument for giving him Lone Wolf instead of Juke, but...man, Full Throttle just loves Juke so much)

8 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Cool. So what do you do with the other 11 pts. We still only have 4 ships with 2 attack.

Ric should get his extra attack die often enough, and remember that for your aces at least, 'Juke' is going to be doing a soft bump-down of the enemy's own defense abilities, which makes it easier for the primary attack to get through (which Padme's ability, particularly, works well with to make sure that sticks).  Your attack doesn't need to be high if the enemy's defense is weakened.

(I guess I'd caveat this saying I'm only dipping my toes in 2nd edition a bit, so playing era-pure.  This all works very well vs the Seps.  Can't really speak to the original trilogy pilots, though, and no idea at all how the sequel ships fit into any of this)

Edited by xanderf

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Yeah, I always considered Juke to be a psuedo additional die as well, but lately with the Jedi around, and then on these guys with their speed 3 requirement to even trigger it, it's just not been working out. Oh, that's another downside to the ship, you can't build to evade token tricks like Juke consistently. No native Evade action on the bar 😒

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I've been running the passive+protons for a few games and initially I thought I was getting somewhere. Only problem I kept having was the single mod. Over 4 games, with decent approaches each time, I got off like 10 torps, and averaged 2.5 damage. Feels bad. But that's variance right? Then tonight I encountered a list that just plain did that trick better.

Four SF's with passive+Concussion killed a ship of mine a turn, and still had room to add in Scorch. It was really freaking strong. And with the passive+lock+rotate=missiles at will, there was just nowhere safe for the fragile bananas to be. 

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jus regen? 

Ric Olié (42)
Juke (7)
R2 Astromech (4)

Anakin Skywalker (41)
Juke (7)
Fire-Control System (2)
R2 Astromech (4)

Dineé Ellberger (38)
R2 Astromech (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Bravo Flight Officer (34)
R2 Astromech (4)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Also, consider Daredevil on Ric save some points for a bid for that Init2

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34 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

I've been running the passive+protons for a few games and initially I thought I was getting somewhere. Only problem I kept having was the single mod. Over 4 games, with decent approaches each time, I got off like 10 torps, and averaged 2.5 damage. Feels bad. But that's variance right? Then tonight I encountered a list that just plain did that trick better.

Four SF's with passive+Concussion killed a ship of mine a turn, and still had room to add in Scorch. It was really freaking strong. And with the passive+lock+rotate=missiles at will, there was just nowhere safe for the fragile bananas to be. 

This is why I run battle meditation obiwan if I want bravos with torps, double mods on offense and defense without the drawbacks of passive sensors.

Edited by Nyxen

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55 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

This is why I run battle meditation obiwan if I want bravos with torps, double mods on offense and defense without the drawbacks of passive sensors.

Nice.  Bravos move, take Focus.  Obi moves, spends force, coordinates both bravos target locks.  Obi Is left with 2 Force (or 1 Force if he wanted to do FTC after he moves/before he coordinates) to give the Bravos focuses once they spend their focuses.

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I think an all N-1 list is always going to be hard work. Single frame lists have a strong tendency towards Achilles Heels, which is just balance imo. 

With these, only being able to fit 4 and being largely on 2ag is not great. They also seem to have a hard time staying on target and finishing damaged ships, which is problem when adding up points, but I could be wrong there, I haven't played with or against them that much.

However, I ran up against Ric and Dinee with ProTorp Padme and Anakin last wknd, it was not bad. Ric and Dinee aiming at the same target is really quite a pain, all of your dial choices feel wrong. Padme's ability is obviously really good. Anakin can be pretty hard to avoid.

Was unsure the 28pt of Torps was worth it, but you need some punch in there somewhere and the deterrent it put on my Inquisitors was real. He didn't get much out of them, but since I lost 63-77, the damage they did do was enough to swing a win for him. I also would have been more aggressive with my speed and positioning if he didn't have them. I had a big edge in manouevrability, stacked defences and Darth f**king Vader, the Torps kept me cagey.

Seemed to have a large burden of execution, but he did well on the day and the various quirks of the pilots and upgrades came together to make it a surprisingly awkward and thorny puzzle.

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Well, you're trying to stretch out a very particular ship (mainly due to full throttle) into a full blown squadron 

I've found the n1 to be a great budget ace, given full throttle, fcs, and r2 (plus juke to compensate for a crap primary). Ole has the initiative and offense; Anakin is the poster child for why you shouldn't give force users evade tokens.

The n1 only has two sources of immediate full mods: Anakin and r2-c4. Torps are bloody expensive, so you basically need full mods to even bother.

Even reliance on either juke or torps to do any sort of damage, it seems you basically need padme. Trying to fit in decent Torps when you're paying at least 50 points, well...good luck?

An1 think this is a good idea?

(45) Padmé Amidala [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(4) R2 Astromech
(7) Juke
Points: 56

(41) Anakin Skywalker [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(4) R2 Astromech
(2) Fire-Control System
(7) Juke
Points: 54

(42) Ric Olié [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(4) R2 Astromech
(2) Fire-Control System
(7) Juke
Points: 55

(34) Bravo Flight Officer [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
Points: 34

Total points: 199

 

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Worth trying out. I feel like I was doing allot better with the initial tri-ace combinations. Like the second list I ran was slammed together without thinking and had AdvSen, elusive, and R2s, protons, on all three Ace's Ric, Dinee, and Ani. Obviously not a true synergy setup for these, but it actually almost worked out anyway.

Like sure you lose your free Evade when you T-roll, losing your mild two action economy, but AdvSen gets you at least back to one. And then Elusive got you a psuedo evade. But real talk, as many times I've tried to force Elusive, and I trigger and refresh it pretty consistently, I think there's only ever been like 3 actual successes for me out if it. Let's face it, it's not great, even if it was just a point.

And with boost/roll on the bar for AdvSen they were very hard to catch especially with Anakin doing Anakin things. Someone mentioned at the games last week some foreign Nationals just had a guy won with AdvSen Ani? And having played it I can see why.

And I know, I'm doing something your not supposed to, mono-chasis builds. Like I said I'm doing this stubbornly. I don't ever do these usually sticking to like four ship rebel/resistance builds or sinker+mini swarm or some craziness in that vein. I agree it's a balance thing, probably better to not have a ship so good running them alone works... Most of the time. *Glares at 4xPhantoms, and 5xAwings*

Because I also love the theme and aesthetic of certain ships in formation. Like the above mentioned 4xSF+Scorch is all Zeta Squad and look right together! That's cool! I think there's a few ships that should be able to pull that off like your standard TIE swarm, or Mandalorian Fangs, or whatever suits your fancy. As long as a mono-chasis build is balanced to other monos and mixes, I would consider that balanced too right? 

And to me right now the N-1 is kinda maybe sorta a sub-faction ship if that makes sense? Like the scum faction is just a pile of sub factions right? And sure the N1 was probably engaged alongside Jedi and clones at some point, but not regularly. And sure it left the Naboo system, but not often and not without one of the Royal shuttles or yachts right? And I don't have those yet. And I'm guessing those will be strong support ships that could hopefully cover the weaknesses of the N-1. When I do get those, believe me, it will be royals with escorts all day long 😁👍 But in the meantime I'm enjoying a build challenge. I'm not expecting to go win a tourney here, but to threaten a win consistently on game night I'll take. So I appreciate all the input. I'm hitting the wall so it gives me things to try.

I'm noticing Padme keeps coming up, and I've only played her the once, so I'll try to push that again.

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Spam lists are Jank and will/should always be Jank. Every ship has a blind spot, so if your list isn’t diverse, it will suffer badly to hard-counters.

That said, if we’re min/maxing, it’s awfully hard to go wrong with four passive Protorp Bravos. It plays exactly to all the strengths you mention with none of the drawbacks, and it makes exceptional use of the grossly underpriced Passive Sensors.

The fundamental problem is that this ship has no endgame. You can’t knife-fight with it, and the only high-I pilot is either squishy-wimpy or extremely predictable. Your early game must inherently overpower them for you to win.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

n-1s got plenty of endgame just by virtue of full throttle and fcs

modsmodsmodsmods

obviously, they're no aethersprite, but that's why they're like 54/55 instead of 75

 

I’ve (sadly) still yet to fly my N1, but I keep hearing FCS being suggested for it. Is it really worthwhile? I can understand Passive Sensors for torpedo things, or Advanced Sensors for Advanced Sensors things—but what’s FCS’s play here?

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1 hour ago, CoffeeMinion said:

I’ve (sadly) still yet to fly my N1, but I keep hearing FCS being suggested for it. Is it really worthwhile? I can understand Passive Sensors for torpedo things, or Advanced Sensors for Advanced Sensors things—but what’s FCS’s play here?

it's 2 points for persistent re-rolls

given that the piddly 2-die primary isn't about to kill anything with any undue haste...yeah

It's definitely the best on baby anakin (full mods with forcus!) and not something I'd put on just any n1 (specifically on n1s you plan to take into the late game), but it's a steal for two points. 

If you have any intention of keeping an n1 around for the lategame, it's pretty essential.

So like, a bravo blocker or naked Ole won't really need fcs. But for a late game n1, juke + r2 + fcs are super swanky 

In the list I posted, I left fcs off Padme for points and also because she'll prob be target numero uno. Much more likely to get Annie or ole into the late game 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I had FCS on Ric in one game that I remember he made it to the later game and was just a little underwhelmed with a FCS on him. Even in the post game analysis it was confirmed that almost every opportunity to have a FClock, was just better served by a focus. Too often his ability wouldn't proc, or he wouldn't need it, or his target was disengaged. As much as these guys seen to be piles of mods, they really just aren't. Single evades on two agility just isn't a good defense. Especially when your often starving for a focus. I'll give it another go, but I don't see it either.

On a Force user I could see it potentially, but if it's on Anakin I'd rather have AdvSen. Cuz that was crazy. And crazy fun. 

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2 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

On a Force user I could see it potentially, but if it's on Anakin I'd rather have AdvSen. Cuz that was crazy. And crazy fun. 

Collision Detector is entertaining, for the roll on, roll off trick :)

There an entire mini game going on if he has that, Trick Shot and a Torp, lining up his 3 speed attack run. 

It's expensive but it was the 1st thing I thought I had to try. Enjoyed it so much I have literally not touched anything else on it yet :D

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I recently ran a SINGLE Naboo with a athersprite and two v19.  The N1 And Ather ran as aces (Ric and Obi) obi had synchronized console to pass locks to the torrents who had clusters.  I was able to delete five awings and only lose one v19 for his first three awings then traded one more for another, leaving Ric and Obi to clean up.  

I feel like the N1 is like the awing.  Not meant to be a solo build list.  I think it can only work in conjunction with other ships.  

That being said I'm definitely going to try it myself.  I'll be interested in what you find if anything.

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