Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Blail Blerg

NANTEX QUESTIONS - This thing has too many rules and interactions

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I give myself a tractor to rotate, my opponent moves me? 

Then I ensnare someone at R1 and I move them?

The person who creates the tractor effect is the one who does the moving.  So you tractor yourself, and then if using Pinpoint Tractor Array (you are) you do the tractor boost/BR on yourself, rotating your turret at the same time.

If you then have Ensnare, after all activation, you can transfer your tractor token to another enemy ship and then you get to do the tractor boost/BR on them (assuming they are a small-based, anyway, or otherwise have the right number of tractor tokens to 'become tractored').

In both cases, it's always you doing the movement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, and if you bump someone doing a maneuver (Sun Fan 5 straights-bumps into a I2 Torrent), the Nantex still loses its action? 

And you must rotate the turret? 

And Ensnare, is only in arc. 

Does it have to be R0-1 within the arc, or R0-1 from ship to ship?? 

Tractors go away at the end of the turn (including if a Large ship has 1 but not enough to be tractored?) Large ships also are forcibly moved when they get status=tractored? 

You don't remove the tractor token after an attack like strain right? 

What happens if you tractor into a debris, gain stress, can you still do the rotate action? 

If you tractor onto a rock, do you still get an action? 

If you tractor onto a rock, can you still rotate action? 

(Its really kind of terrible that it makes you do a rotate as an action, should have all been mandatory. This thing really should never have been released as printed) 

((Its fun as ****, but dumb how much complexity it creates))

Edited by Blail Blerg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok, and if you bump someone doing a maneuver (Sun Fan 5 straights-bumps into a I2 Torrent), the Nantex still loses its action? 

And you must rotate the turret? 

And Ensnare, is only in arc. 

Does it have to be R0-1 within the arc, or R0-1 from ship to ship?? 

Tractors go away at the end of the turn (including if a Large ship has 1 but not enough to be tractored?) Large ships also are forcibly moved when they get status=tractored? 

You don't remove the tractor token after an attack like strain right? 

What happens if you tractor into a debris, gain stress, can you still do the rotate action? 

If you tractor onto a rock, do you still get an action? 

If you tractor onto a rock, can you still rotate action? 

(Its really kind of terrible that it makes you do a rotate as an action, should have all been mandatory. This thing really should never have been released as printed) 

((Its fun as ****, but dumb how much complexity it creates))

1. Yes, no action if you bump. (Pinpoint is not the ship's action, it is a chassis ability, so can perform this on a bump)

2. Yes, turret cannot stay in the same position.

3. Only turret arc, not your bullseye.

4. Within the arc range 0-1. Bit ambiguity here, but I read the rule as 1 part, so applying to the arc AT range 0-1.

5. Yes, orange tokens are removed end of the turn under normal conditions, including tractor tokens for medium/large base ships. (You are thinking of Ion token, which is a red token and they do not go off at the end of the turn.) Large base ships, once they receive 3 tractor tokens become tractored, so then you move them per normal large base ship rules (so sideway barrel roll)

6. No.

7. No, as game mechanics get injected in the ability que before player abilities (such as gaining a stress token. In the RR there is a good example of Jake doing a linked action, his ability states he can do an focus action if he does a BR or Boost, but seeing it was linked, the stress is received before the pilot ability completes, so not able to gain a focus action for himself on his linked action). So you will get the stress as you hit the debris, so not able to perform an action then. So with my understanding of the rules, this might be 1 way of gaining a tractor token, without rotating the turret. You do meet the requirements to do the condition prior to receiving the tractor token, so should work imo. This can be analysed more just for final clarification.

8. Yes, if you mean yourself, you did not land on the rock during your maneuver, so you do not skip perform action. You still will not be able to shoot though.\

9. Yes, same as above, rocks do not prevent actions.

It is part of action exactly for that reason, that you cannot get a willing stress, and then just take a tractor token to be passed on by ensnare later on, without the need to shift the turret. As if you are not able to perform the rotate ACTION (being ionized, being stressed, Damaged Sensor Array card, other action preventing things), you cannot do your chassis's ability, so it severy limits you. If it was mandatory, you would be able to even more bs shenanigans.

The ship has a good ceiling, think it adds something new. Initially people will not like to play against it, but it has the same effect, say sas the Triple Ups. They were not nearly as good as the forum went nuclear on it, it was just the unknown factor when you are new to play against that list and once you know how to play against them, they do not have anything other tricks, so knowing how your opponent is going to play, is already a big advantage for you.

The confusion do comes in more about tractor rules than the ship self, but this will learned over time. Then adding the double tractor and then the action upon it, is a different spin of things, but is actually just 1 step more to do, than say Fine Tune Controls etc (as in, ship let you perform something after it moves, in this case, partial moves count as well), but after a few games with it, the game flows again as people know the rules and interaction of the ship.

 

Edited by PsychoCC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Wait, can you pinpoint tractor and give yourself a tractor token if you have a stress (and cannot perform actions?)

I’d say no.

Gaining the tractor token is the cost for the effect of performing the rotate action. The section “Paying Costs” on page 2 of the Rules Reference states “A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Wait, can you pinpoint tractor and give yourself a tractor token if you have a stress (and cannot perform actions?)

No, you can't trigger an ability if you can't pay the cost.

For example: stressed Jedi can't pay Force for Fine-Tuned Controls even if he wanted to.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Wait, can you pinpoint tractor and give yourself a tractor token if you have a stress (and cannot perform actions?)

Paying costs

A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved.

• For example, GNK “Gonk” Droid’s ability says “Action: Spend 1 󲈮 to recover 1 shield.” The ship cannot spend the charge if it has no inactive shields.

• Replacement effects can replace a cost that a ship would pay for an effect. If a cost is replaced in this way, the effect is still resolved.

 

RR page 2.  The tractor is a cost to do the rotate action, you cannot pay a cost if the effect cannot be resolved, the rotate action cannot be resolved if stressed, ergo, the cost cannot be paid if stressed (or ioned, or in possession of a Damaged Sensor Array crit).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Image result for sun fac x-wing

 

So....you do your move.   The Pinpoint Tractor Array says you just need to execute a maneuver and you can do it.  You don't need to complete a maneuver (not bump).  You just need to do the move.   You can then, if you want, rotate the turret.  It does not require an action.    It is part of the maneuver of the ship.   This one took me by surprise as I didn't understand at first, but it is similar to another Jedi move (but that one requires you to complete the move).   

After you move, even if you bump, you can rotate your turret if you want to.  If you do, you get a Tractor Token.   You have to rotate the turret, though.  You cannot rotate it to the same direction.  It has to be a different one.

Once you have the Tractor Token, you can then Barrel Roll left or right or Boost straight (not bank).  You are -1 agility.   This could move you off someone you bumped and give you a shot.  Also, Tractor Beam moves can move you onto an object.  Normal Boost or BR would not, but TB can do it.

OK....all that happened in the move part.   Now, if you didn't bump, you get an action.  Your action is either focus or Evade.  

image.jpeg.c219664594a96af8e1671854ac06d843.jpeg

 

If you have Ensnare...at the end of the Activation Phase (everyone moves and does their action), you have the chance to pass that Tractor Beam token to someone else.   They have to be:

  • In your turret arc.
  • In range 0-1.

They can be a friendly ship or an enemy ship.   You give them your Tractor Beam token.  If it is a small ship, you can then Boost them straight (no banks) or Barrel Roll them.    They are also -1 Agility.   You can move them onto an obstacle or move them off you if you are bumping them.   You can move them into the line of fire of someone else.   

The recent rules changes did change something for Tractor Beams and medium and large ships.  It used to be that every TB token reduced the ship's agility, but you couldn't move it unless it had 2 tokens for a medium and 3 for a large.  Now, you don't get the -1 Agility unless you get official "tractored".  That means 2 tokens for medium and 3 for large.  

 

Does that help?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Yes, I got it as long as I read it, but now I simply forgot after, but admire your teaching ability.

Maybe I need one to use on the mat to understand?

Are you secretly a salesman for FFG Jim?

...now where's my tea?

Just know that the turret action and the TB token are free, and don't take an action.  You can do it if you bump.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Just know that the turret action and the TB token are free, and don't take an action.  You can do it if you bump.   

They don't require your perform action step, which is not the same as not taking an action.

 

You can't tractor yourself if you're stressed, ionised, have Damaged Sensor Array crit, or other things which prevent you performing the rotate action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Yeah...yeah......it's an action....but it doesn't happen when actions normally happen. 

It doesn't happen during your perform action step.


There IS no time when actions 'normally happen'.

 

E: it's a lot easier to avoid confusion about the rules if you actually USE the terms in the rules.

 

(Mostly)

Edited by thespaceinvader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Image result for sun fac x-wing

 

So....you do your move.   The Pinpoint Tractor Array says you just need to execute a maneuver and you can do it.  You don't need to complete a maneuver (not bump).  You just need to do the move.   You can then, if you want, rotate the turret.  It does not require an action.    It is part of the maneuver of the ship.   This one took me by surprise as I didn't understand at first, but it is similar to another Jedi move (but that one requires you to complete the move).   

After you move, even if you bump, you can rotate your turret if you want to.  If you do, you get a Tractor Token.   You have to rotate the turret, though.  You cannot rotate it to the same direction.  It has to be a different one.

Once you have the Tractor Token, you can then Barrel Roll left or right or Boost straight (not bank).  You are -1 agility.   This could move you off someone you bumped and give you a shot.  Also, Tractor Beam moves can move you onto an object.  Normal Boost or BR would not, but TB can do it.

OK....all that happened in the move part.   Now, if you didn't bump, you get an action.  Your action is either focus or Evade.  

image.jpeg.c219664594a96af8e1671854ac06d843.jpeg

 

If you have Ensnare...at the end of the Activation Phase (everyone moves and does their action), you have the chance to pass that Tractor Beam token to someone else.   They have to be:

  • In your turret arc.
  • In range 0-1.

They can be a friendly ship or an enemy ship.   You give them your Tractor Beam token.  If it is a small ship, you can then Boost them straight (no banks) or Barrel Roll them.    They are also -1 Agility.   You can move them onto an obstacle or move them off you if you are bumping them.   You can move them into the line of fire of someone else.   

The recent rules changes did change something for Tractor Beams and medium and large ships.  It used to be that every TB token reduced the ship's agility, but you couldn't move it unless it had 2 tokens for a medium and 3 for a large.  Now, you don't get the -1 Agility unless you get official "tractored".  That means 2 tokens for medium and 3 for large.  

 

Does that help?

Incredibly. 

I'd suggest adding that part about you cannot gain tractor token if you're stressed/otherwise unable to try and perform the rotate action. 

If you want, might also be good to state in there if/where obstacles may impact being able to do the rotate.

Otherwise, you've made an amazing one page explanation. 

Oh, for Ensanre also, we should check, does it have to be R0-1 in arc? or Just R0-1 to the ship?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Incredibly. 

I'd suggest adding that part about you cannot gain tractor token if you're stressed/otherwise unable to try and perform the rotate action. 

If you want, might also be good to state in there if/where obstacles may impact being able to do the rotate.

Otherwise, you've made an amazing one page explanation. 

Oh, for Ensanre also, we should check, does it have to be R0-1 in arc? or Just R0-1 to the ship?

It has to be r0-1 in arc, just like the card says.  What makes you think it would be otherwise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

you can no longer tractor someone off the board now right, because you have to force them to perform a barrel roll and it will fail if it is off the board?

This has literally always been the case for Tractor effects, and has been the case for boosts and barrel rolls in general since... I want to say just before wave 8?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...