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Hiemfire

Some of what I suspect will happen with the Jan points update.

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I've gotten a bit cynical in my view of how the adjustments are being applied. Formula as I perceive it: Top list archetype in faction receives across the board points increases of all ships and upgrades regardless of actual performance. "Problematic" upgrades receive increases regardless of where/how often they appeared. Increases to Imp archetypes are done at a x/2 rounded to the next lowest whole number rate.

That said:

Drea +2 (possible synergy with point def C-ROCs)

Mux +5

Seevor +3

Ion weapons and other ways to apply Ion tokens to enemy ships +2

Tractor +1

K-fighter points buff rolled back.

Snap Shot +2

Foresight -1 (unless Asajj starts popping up with it, then +2)

Ships that can take Mag Pulse +1 (K-fighter nerf overlaps).

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I mean, it does seem to be that the mentality is "whatever is winning gets increases" with only very rare, minor, and often insignificant reductions occurring for underperforming items.  So, basically it's a "nerf the good" strategy rather than a "buff the weak" strategy.  But still, what mostly gets flown after point changes is just the stuff that was getting flown before, with a few less toys attached.

I mean, that Dash Rendar is still an absurdly overcosted 98pts, for instance, having only gone 2pts since 2.0 dropped despite never ever seeing any sort of competitive table (outside of the brief Roarke+GunnerHan trick before it was banned) is pretty telling.

I'd rather have more incentive to dust off some of the garbage options in each faction rather than just periodically having to take one or two less toys on the go-to stuff at the top of the list.

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Hiem, I love ya man, but I really hope Scum doesn't get hit this hard. They are hands down, the worst faction in the game, and have been since the Jan 2019 Boba massacre. They need help or the faction is going to implode in terms of viability if January pricing doesn't solve their problems. Ions are nowhere, yet, but we'll see. And Kihraxz aren't really setting the world on fire apart from a single build. 

As an aside; Boba, of all scum pilots, should be everywhere in this FFG game. As plentiful as any of the force users, etc. He represents the scum faction more than any other pilot. He needs to be priced competitively. He needs to be on tables and getting played every bit as Vader, Anakin, etc. But, he needs bounty hunter friends. And illicits need to get all priced down significantly. 

If they don't get scum right next go round, it might be enough for me to take a sabbatical from the game. I invested in that faction more than any other, but they just can't really compete as it is currently. No new toys make Cloaker a sad man. 

Agreed on Snap Shot though. In 2e unmodded defense is painful. That upgrade is better than any other in the game right now on a point for point scale. 

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Boba IS very good. 

[Passive rerolls, Maul crew or Han gunner for a ship that is then action agnostic. Is absolute nonsense.]

The argument would be that he isn't supported well enough.

I would argue all the good players jumped ship to easier factions. Sort of like what has just happened to Rebels since that last update.

So the factions unsurprisingly perform less well when being played by weaker players.

No surprise that when a top player plays Rebels or Scum, they do well. See Rebels reaching Aus SOS final. Scum reaching German Nats Top 4 etc.

Who knew that good players were good?

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17 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

Boba IS very good. 

[Passive rerolls, Maul crew or Han gunner for a ship that is then action agnostic. Is absolute nonsense.]

The argument would be that he isn't supported well enough.

I would argue all the good players jumped ship to easier factions. Sort of like what has just happened to Rebels since that last update.

So the factions unsurprisingly perform less well when being played by weaker players.

No surprise that when a top player plays Rebels or Scum, they do well. See Rebels reaching Aus SOS final. Scum reaching German Nats Top 4 etc.

Who knew that good players were good?

Ah, unicorns vs. herd of cattle... they aren't nearly as pervasive in any large share as any of the top 5. 

The problem people make now is purely equating great players to factional viability. This isn't going to keep the game afloat another 18 months. Of course top players are going to make diamonds out of coal---but again, unicorns, brother. 

The thing is, for the game to REALLY level up, there has to be compellingly equitable introductory pricing to where new bloods can accidentally enjoy a game predicated on some occasional randomness and basking in the preventative glow that FFG will make sure that the most iconic representatives of the IP are viable for all, not just elites. 

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary

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I can totally see Torkil going up 4 points. Seevor up 2. Marauders might go up by 1. As long as its accompanied by significant points drop on other Scum ships and pilots then thats ok, and helps keen things fresh. 

 

IMHO, I dont like that Seevor is the go to MG-Tie, I'd be happy for all other name pilots to drop 1-2 points

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I really want the IG-2000 pilots to drop  on average 2 or more points.

This would open up the design space when list building and make spending 1/3 to 1/2 of your list points on a single firing arc more palatable.

 

I really want triple IGs to be a thing (Whether its 3 x 2000s or 2 x 2000s + IG-88D as crew somewhere)

 

I4 is a tough place to be, hopefully points go up on the I5s and 6s across all factions

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5 hours ago, Antipodean Ork said:

In other words, any time scum even pokes its nose above the mediocrity line, it gets slapped with points upgrades. 

Meanwhile certain other builds come out that even an average player such as myself can see are horrifying, and nothing changes. 

Seevor will go up to 32pts imo. Ketsu may even get the nerf hammer but I hope not. would like to see a change to fang fighters not named fenn or old teroch, as these r the only two seeing regular play. lots of other scum pilots could use a boost. Torkil Mux might get a points increase although his points when equiped with Moldy Crow title see about right imo.

ffg need to look at the scum illicit upgrades and make them cheaper like they did with contraband cybernetics. as 3pts its priced right and is seeing play here and there.

scum needs a way to get slam onto ships... probably a long way off.

escape craft is kinda out of favour right now. would be awesome if ffg gave this ship a points buff.

Edited by Da_Brown_Bomber

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Seevor hasn't gotten any better than he was the last points update, so I can't really see him going up. He's strong, but he's above the curve of things like jedi and the nantex. I'd like to see the other scum TIEs and scum Zs come down in price a bit though

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15 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I mean, it does seem to be that the mentality is "whatever is winning gets increases" with only very rare, minor, and often insignificant reductions occurring for underperforming items.  So, basically it's a "nerf the good" strategy rather than a "buff the weak" strategy.

And that's exactly the way it should be.

Buff the weak leads to power creep and gave us the worst of 1.0. Nerf the strong keeps everything at a playable level and is definitely the right call.

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3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

And that's exactly the way it should be.

Buff the weak leads to power creep and gave us the worst of 1.0. Nerf the strong keeps everything at a playable level and is definitely the right call.

I agree with nerf the strong being a good choice. But still I think Tie Aggressors and some other ships needs a little nudge... Buffing the weak is not the biggest problem, buffing the middle is...

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40 minutes ago, N'Kata said:

Buffing the weak is not the biggest problem, buffing the middle is...

Interesting quip, and probably correct.

I'd buff all non-shielded generics across the board and even a few shielded ones that aren't seeing mat time, save the TIE/LN as she's at her sweet spot so leave those classics alone. In other words, no beef buff, just buff the ships that can so easily go pop.

...nerf? Now that's for mates with far more experience than I, but I do agree tweaking back the dominates always help freshen up the menu.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Oldpara said:

Don't be ridiculous. Seevor is OK, but anywhere broken. He doesn't kill things, he's just annoying, survivable and nice support ship but nothing more. 

Heimfire isn't being ridiculous; they are being salty that Scum only gets nerfs. Their salt is justifiable.

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On 9/23/2019 at 10:04 AM, Scum4Life said:

I really want the IG-2000 pilots to drop  on average 2 or more points.

This would open up the design space when list building and make spending 1/3 to 1/2 of your list points on a single firing arc more palatable.

I really want triple IGs to be a thing (Whether its 3 x 2000s or 2 x 2000s + IG-88D as crew somewhere)

I4 is a tough place to be, hopefully points go up on the I5s and 6s across all factions

As an old 1st Edition Bot main, I don't think they can be buffed much more than they already have.

Right now 88ABC fit with titles and Jamming Beams, which is... reasonable. Not game breaking, but it is 24 hit points, all behind 3 agility, and while it's not the most effective double-tap ever, it's there. But if you take 2 points off, suddenly you have three double-tapping Tractor Beams on the table, all on 8-health, 3-agility, multi-token beatsticks.

As much as I love Bots, this would not be reasonable.

Edited by DR4CO

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2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Nerf the strong keeps everything at a playable level and is definitely the right call.


But this is simply not the case in reality.  While ships like TIE Phantoms (with Juke) and Vader and Leia Crew and the like have all been (rightly) hit with one or more points increases over the course of 2.0, those ships all still see a ton of play while the ships at the bottom of the pile (e.g. YT-2400, TIE Aggressor, etc.) have not seen any increase in play because they are still terribly overcosted.  Even if debuffs bring the best stuff down to "fair" price levels, that doesn't make the overcosted junk anymore appealing.  So I firmly disagree that it "keeps everything at a playable level" because lots of stuff has and will continue to remain below that playable level without serious attention and significant points reductions.

Achieving proper balance to "make everything playable" requires not just increasing costs on the best stuff, but also lowering costs on the worst stuff.  FFG has been semi-decent about the former and woefully unattentive about the latter.

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