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Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun

Why is the First Order using Resistance Bombers

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10 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

I mean, it's not like there's anything saying they can't buy from the same people...

I would assume the First Order has their own dedicated bomber.

 

4 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

Has the actual origin of the bomber been confirmed?

Because it could be the case that they're actually FO ships and the Resistance simply... liberated them.

Dating back to the final days of the Galactic Civil War, the New Republic contracted with Slayn & Korpil for the MG-100 StarFortress, a dedicated heavy bomber that could deliver a larger payload than starfighters. Part of the ship's intent was to help capture besieged Imperial holdouts. The ship saw reduced manufacture during the decades of peace that followed.  

 

The Senate's subsequent demilitarization effort sent many StarFortresses to the scrapyard. Other decommissioned craft saw widespread civilian use. Mining companies used them to drop explosives that broke up ice and rock, local governments deployed them as rescue ships, fuel tankers, and fire-fighting craft, and scout services relied on them for celestial mapping and exploration. The modular bomb magazine could be easily repurposed for remote cargo drops.

 

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Origin of the First Order, probably grabbing any tech that they can get a hold of, and beyond that...probably payload. The payload for one MG-100 is 1,048 proton bombs vs one FO bomber having...8. Pretty substantial difference. For this mission, seems like a better choice.

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1 hour ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

 

j0a6ndrerln31.jpg

This is from the new Rose comic.   

Edit -  When they have their own dedicated bombers.

 

 

Looks to me that they’re using drilling beams instead of bombs. I’m guessing FO bombers don’t have the payload or modular space to mount a laser powerful enough to drill through the crust of a planet.

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It's Slayn & Korpil; the same people that manufactured the V-19 Torrent and the A/SF-01 B-Wing and the A/SF-02 B-Wing Mk II, among other things.

I'd be surprised if they willingly sold to the First Order, but depending on timeline, they may not have had much of a choice in the matter.

It is somewhat canonical as ships like the forerunner of the A-Wing, U-Wing, X-Wing, and Y-Wing were originally intended for the empire but subverted to the rebellion, and if I remember correctly the Nebulon B was Imperial all along.

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4 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Has the actual origin of the bomber been confirmed?

Because it could be the case that they're actually FO ships and the Resistance simply... liberated them.

Not empire enough...no tie wings or pointy triangle shapes...for sure just a private contractor 

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3 hours ago, TheOz said:

Not empire enough...no tie wings or pointy triangle shapes...for sure just a private contractor 

It's also going to be - if this comparatively 'back in time' during the period when the First Order was doing the 'totally deniable no we're not bad guys what do you mean?' act, much like they try to do by getting the Colossus to sign on 'voluntarily'.

Having the mining done by a third party with 'first order security' puts them at one remove from being the nefarious eco-badguys if that's useful.

5 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

if I remember correctly the Nebulon B was Imperial all along.

It was. I recall reading a quote along the lines of "just once I'd like to engage a rebel frigate that wasn't stolen from us..."

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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8 hours ago, Nyxen said:

I mean, it's not like there's anything saying they can't buy from the same people...

Genuinely a dedicated plot point of The Last Jedi, so yeah. That.

 

 

8 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

 

j0a6ndrerln31.jpg

This is from the new Rose comic.   

Edit -  When they have their own dedicated bombers.

 

 

Hesh, buddy it's simple. They're able to use all that bomb bay space for capacitors powerful enough for this job, but also, these things are inexpensive... AND The First Order isn't using them as Bombers. Which is smart.

I think this is actually pretty great.

 

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12 hours ago, dsul413 said:

Origin of the First Order, probably grabbing any tech that they can get a hold of...


But this doesn't jive at all with their lore as the richest faction of all time.  The First Order does not want for resources, manpower, or production facilities.  They built a massive fleet that was so large it was capable of retaking the entire galaxy in a literal day (source: The Last Jedi opening scrawl).  They built ships and equipment that was all absurdly bigger than the Imperials' own vessels.  A Resurgent is twice the size of an ISD.  Snoke's ship is wider than the First Death Star's diameter... I mean....wtf?  Starkiller Base was an utterly massive facility capable of somehow draining and storing and converting all the energy and mass of a star...

They built and staffed all of this in less than 30 years, and were able to do it all in secret in the middle of nowhere, which means their logistical and supply chain infrastructure was also huge and exceedingly professional.  So, basically, the First Order's magic power is obscene wealth and resources (coupled with a dash of unyielding loyalty/secrecy in the billions of support staff, logisitical staff, suppliers, and business partners they would have had to have worked with over those 30 years).   They are the embodiment of flawless, cold, perfected professionalism when it comes to production, and yet the most laughable sad sack of ***** when it comes to military command, making even Scooby-Do villains look like masterminds in comparison.   Could you imagine, though, the terror they would pose if that unlimited magical pool of resources was available to an enemy with even the slightest bit of competence?

But anyways, this means portraying them as a rag-tag team of desperate scrappers that are forced to use any and every piece of equipment they can get their hands on is simply incompatible with their lore.  If they were using MG Starfortresses, it's not because they were the only thing available and the First Order "made due" with them, but rather it's that the First Order preferred to use the starfortresses in that scenario over any other craft type.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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Just now, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


But this doesn't jive at all with their lore as the richest faction of all time.  The First Order does not want for resources, manpower, or production facilities.  They built a massive fleet (far outstripping the Resistance's) that was so large it was capable of retaking the entire galaxy in a literal day (source: The Last Jedi opening scrawl).  They built ships and equipment absurdly bigger than the Imperials' own vessels.  A Resurgent is twice the size of an ISD.  Snoke's ship is wider than the First Death Star's diameter... I mean....wtf?  Starkiller Base was a massive facility.

They built and staffed all of this in less than 30 years, and were able to do it all in secret in the middle of nowhere, which means their logistical and supply chain infrastructure was also huge and exceedingly professional.  So, basically, the First Order's magic power is obscene wealth and resources (coupled with a dash of unyielding loyalty/secrecy in the billions of support staff, logisitical staff, suppliers, and business partners they would have had to have worked with over those 30 years). 

Which means portraying them as a rag-tag team of desperate scrappers that are forced to use any and every piece of equipment they can get their hands on is simply incompatible with their lore.  If they were using MG Starfortresses, it's not because they were the only thing available and the First Order "made due" with them, but rather it's that the First Order preferred to use the starfortresses in that scenario over any other craft type.

The First Order have shown themselves more than willing to use fronts, proxies and third-parties to achieve their aims. It is entirely possible that these Starfortresses are being operated by such a group, with the First Order present to provide 'security' for their 'legitimate mining activities'. This allows them to get what they want (plentiful supplies of raw materials) while having plausible deniability should their actions be discovered. After all, prior to the Starkiller Base Attack, the First Order were engaged in a cold war with the Resistance, seeking to gather their strength and complete their superweapon while preventing the full extent of their operations and plans being revealed to the wider galaxy.

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12 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

The First Order have shown themselves more than willing to use fronts, proxies and third-parties to achieve their aims. It is entirely possible that these Starfortresses are being operated by such a group, with the First Order present to provide 'security' for their 'legitimate mining activities'. This allows them to get what they want (plentiful supplies of raw materials) while having plausible deniability should their actions be discovered. After all, prior to the Starkiller Base Attack, the First Order were engaged in a cold war with the Resistance, seeking to gather their strength and complete their superweapon while preventing the full extent of their operations and plans being revealed to the wider galaxy.


Sure, and that's a reasonably plausible possible explanation of this comics moment.  But I guess my basic point was really: "the origins and operations of the First Order are so fantastically absurd, that why worry about or justify any of the tiny particular instances?" Even if you can explain a piece of it, it's like hanging a cardboard air freshener on the rearview mirror of a garbage truck that's been filled to the brim with glistening, wet, ripe garbage on a hot, humid, sunny New Jersey summer afternoon.   

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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27 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


But this doesn't jive at all with their lore as the richest faction of all time.  The First Order does not want for resources, manpower, or production facilities.  They built a massive fleet that was so large it was capable of retaking the entire galaxy in a literal day (source: The Last Jedi opening scrawl).  They built ships and equipment that was all absurdly bigger than the Imperials' own vessels.  A Resurgent is twice the size of an ISD.  Snoke's ship is wider than the First Death Star's diameter... I mean....wtf?  Starkiller Base was an utterly massive facility capable of somehow draining and storing and converting all the energy and mass of a star...

They built and staffed all of this in less than 30 years, and were able to do it all in secret in the middle of nowhere, which means their logistical and supply chain infrastructure was also huge and exceedingly professional.  So, basically, the First Order's magic power is obscene wealth and resources (coupled with a dash of unyielding loyalty/secrecy in the billions of support staff, logisitical staff, suppliers, and business partners they would have had to have worked with over those 30 years).   They are the embodiment of flawless, cold, perfected professionalism when it comes to production, and yet the most laughable sad sack of ***** when it comes to military command, making even Scooby-Do villains look like masterminds in comparison.   Could you imagine, though, the terror they would pose if that unlimited magical pool of resources was available to an enemy with even the slightest bit of competence?

...

Are we sure that Kevin J. Anderson didn't have a hand in writing these movies?

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48 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Could you imagine, though, the terror they would pose if that unlimited magical pool of resources was available to an enemy with even the slightest bit of competence?

Image result for thrawn images

The only thing holding Thrawn back was the institutional xenophobia within the Empire, itself.

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1 minute ago, kris40k said:

Image result for thrawn images

The only thing holding Thrawn back was the institutional xenophobia within the Empire, itself.


Yea, well that's kind of his own fault for loyally serving an overtly evil and aggressively xenophobic fascist regime.  Easily the dumbest thing Thrawn ever did, especially so since he kept carrying the Empire's Torch well after Endor and well after it would have been supremely easy and risk-free for him to have surrendered to the New Republic.

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15 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

 

j0a6ndrerln31.jpg

This is from the new Rose comic.   

Edit -  When they have their own dedicated bombers.

 

 

I’m guessing the bombers belonged to the company who was helping the first order mine the planet and the  resistance later stole the bombers in some sort of raid. This is set before the last Jedi.

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