Jump to content
meffo

new RR again

Recommended Posts

So if I’m reading all these right:

 

1) Finn keeps the strain on defense until after applying its affect.

 

2) Cova works with R4 to allow cova’s ability(and subsequently Nien does not work with Herra)

 

3) No more ionized fine tuned Jedi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hiemfire said:

Maybe Quads will get a price reduction now that their ability has been nerfed. Large and outside of bullseye medium bases can just laugh at them now...

Nah, can't have that now. That would mean Scum was not suffering disastrous side effects from a nerf to another faction! Probably just means the Quadjumper is being re-released in wave 7 with a points bump. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, missileaway said:

Nah, can't have that now. That would mean Scum was not suffering disastrous side effects from a nerf to another faction! Probably just means the Quadjumper is being re-released in wave 7 with a points bump. 

Scum had a targeted nerf too. From the Upgrades section:

• Some effects can “exchange” or “equip” an upgrade card from one ship to
another during or after setup.
◊ An effect can move an upgrade to a ship that does not have the
matching icon on its upgrade bar.
◊ An effect cannot move an upgrade to a ship that does not meet the
requirements set out in the restrictions box of the upgrade card unless
the effect says to equip the upgrade “ignoring restrictions.”

I think I scared them with my question about Cloaking Huge bases via Cik during the demo stream... 😠

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, missileaway said:

So if I’m reading all these right:

 

1) Finn keeps the strain on defense until after applying its affect.

 

2) Cova works with R4 to allow cova’s ability(and subsequently Nien does not work with Herra)

 

3) No more ionized fine tuned Jedi.

Yup, Finn has to roll defense dice to lose the strain... not just "defend."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will my America's Asty list work still?  It's not winning tournaments, it's just silly fun, but I'm hoping it still lives.

Can Ello still reveal a tallon, treat it as white, then Leia it to blue, and then BB-8 a barrel roll or boost before the maneuver?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Will my America's Asty list work still?  It's not winning tournaments, it's just silly fun, but I'm hoping it still lives.

Can Ello still reveal a tallon, treat it as white, then Leia it to blue, and then BB-8 a barrel roll or boost before the maneuver?

Yes, I think so.  The manouevre you're executing is blue, which is what BB8 cares about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yes, I think so.  The manouevre you're executing is blue, which is what BB8 cares about.

Well I'm also asking whether the rulings affect Ello and Leia adjusting the same maneuver's color.  I think it does still work, since Leia doesn't alter the "revealed maneuver", just the maneuver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have important questions about Snap Shot timing in relation to Fine-Tuned Controls.  I'm disappointed FFG didn't make it clearer.

Scenario: Jedi has first player and finishes its maneuver at range 3.  I put Snap Shot on the queue.  They fine-tuned boost into range 2.  I resolve snap shot and shoot them in the face.  Is this valid?  Or do I have to check all the requirements for performing snap shot before being able to shove it into the queue, including the extensive attack requirements?

The new ruling is very unclear about what a requirement is and how deep it goes into resolution to determine validity.

Same thing happens with Dengar and Turr, BTW.  Turr Phennir shoots Dengar from outside his arc, then boosts to avoid a different foe, landing in Dengar's arc.  Did Dengar get to add his counter-attack to the queue before Turr boosted?  Or because he doesn't meet the requirements for the attack (which include extensive steps of checks), does he not get to add to the ability queue?

I kinda think "requirements" of an effect are simpler: are you able to make bonus attacks (not disabled, haven't used your bonus attack already)?  But it's unclear enough that I'm sure I'll get loads of pushback, especially against jedi players who don't want to take a snap shot or foresight to the face after they boost into range/arc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Wazat said:

I have important questions about Snap Shot timing in relation to Fine-Tuned Controls.  I'm disappointed FFG didn't make it clearer.

Scenario: Jedi has first player and finishes its maneuver at range 3.  I put Snap Shot on the queue.  They fine-tuned boost into range 2.  I resolve snap shot and shoot them in the face.  Is this valid?  Or do I have to check all the requirements for performing snap shot before being able to shove it into the queue, including the extensive attack requirements?

The new ruling is very unclear about what a requirement is and how deep it goes into resolution to determine validity.

Same thing happens with Dengar and Turr, BTW.  Turr Phennir shoots Dengar from outside his arc, then boosts to avoid a different foe, landing in Dengar's arc.  Did Dengar get to add his counter-attack to the queue before Turr boosted?  Or because he doesn't meet the requirements for the attack (which include extensive steps of checks), does he not get to add to the ability queue?

I kinda think "requirements" of an effect are simpler: are you able to make bonus attacks (not disabled, haven't used your bonus attack already)?  But it's unclear enough that I'm sure I'll get loads of pushback, especially against jedi players who don't want to take a snap shot or foresight to the face after they boost into range/arc.

I’d say you don’t meet the criteria, as Snapshot can’t be performed at R3, which is the range when you wanted to put it in the queue...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Wazat said:

I have important questions about Snap Shot timing in relation to Fine-Tuned Controls.  I'm disappointed FFG didn't make it clearer.

Scenario: Jedi has first player and finishes its maneuver at range 3.  I put Snap Shot on the queue.  They fine-tuned boost into range 2.  I resolve snap shot and shoot them in the face.  Is this valid?  Or do I have to check all the requirements for performing snap shot before being able to shove it into the queue, including the extensive attack requirements?

The new ruling is very unclear about what a requirement is and how deep it goes into resolution to determine validity.

Same thing happens with Dengar and Turr, BTW.  Turr Phennir shoots Dengar from outside his arc, then boosts to avoid a different foe, landing in Dengar's arc.  Did Dengar get to add his counter-attack to the queue before Turr boosted?  Or because he doesn't meet the requirements for the attack (which include extensive steps of checks), does he not get to add to the ability queue?

I kinda think "requirements" of an effect are simpler: are you able to make bonus attacks (not disabled, haven't used your bonus attack already)?  But it's unclear enough that I'm sure I'll get loads of pushback, especially against jedi players who don't want to take a snap shot or foresight to the face after they boost into range/arc.

There is no arc or range requirement to trigger the bonus attack on Snap Shot or Foresight so both should trigger regardless of where the opponent is.  You would then measure for arc and range when you make the attack as part of performing the attack.

Dengar has an arc requirement in order to trigger his ability so he should only trigger if Turr is in the front arc when Dengar's ability would trigger (After defending).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, joeshmoe554 said:

There is no arc or range requirement to trigger the bonus attack on Snap Shot or Foresight so both should trigger regardless of where the opponent is.  You would then measure for arc and range when you make the attack as part of performing the attack.

Dengar has an arc requirement in order to trigger his ability so he should only trigger if Turr is in the front arc when Dengar's ability would trigger (After defending).

Yea, this is the way I interpret both.  Dengar clearly has a requirement for triggering his ability, and that requirement must be met in order to enter the ability queue.  So Turr boosting into arc after the opportunity doesn't help him.  The attack itself is part of the resolution though, so boosting into range 2 of Snap Shot should trigger Snap Shot.

So at least in my view, that seems clear?  But not unambiguously so.  Oh, I'm not looking forward to the inevitable rules arguments on Saturday's tournament.  O_o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, does anyone have any thoughts on the new lines in the Ability Que rules?

 

Quote

If an ability’s requirements are not met, it cannot be added to the ability queue. For example, at the start of the Engagement Phase, if a ship has an ability that requires it to be tractored, but that ship is not tractored, that ability cannot be added to the queue. The ship cannot add the ability to the queue even if another ability also added to the queue at the start of the Engagement Phase would cause that ship to become tractored upon its resolution

 

The example clearly shuts off chaining Ensnare, but I can think of a few other cases this might seriously affect. Like the previous Official Ruling on Kanan Jarrus and Inertial Dampeners, since the ship in question isn't stressed when Kanan's ability would be added to the queue. Or, Anakin Skywalker in the Delta-7 Aethersprite, after executing a red maneuver, he'd be stressed, so couldn't performed the bonus action from Fine-Tuned Controls, even if he were to add his Pilot Ability to remove the stress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Raynor1111 said:

So, does anyone have any thoughts on the new lines in the Ability Que rules?

 

 

The example clearly shuts off chaining Ensnare, but I can think of a few other cases this might seriously affect. Like the previous Official Ruling on Kanan Jarrus and Inertial Dampeners, since the ship in question isn't stressed when Kanan's ability would be added to the queue. Or, Anakin Skywalker in the Delta-7 Aethersprite, after executing a red maneuver, he'd be stressed, so couldn't performed the bonus action from Fine-Tuned Controls, even if he were to add his Pilot Ability to remove the stress.

The key item to remember is whether or not the ability has a conditional requirement on it. if kanan were to say "If it is stressed, after a friendly at R0-2 executes a white move pay a force and remove a stress" then he would only be able to trigger if the targeted ship was stressed before it moved.

As Kanan currently is written there is no condition on being stressed to use his ability.

in general being stressed wont prevent you from adding an ability to the queue, but it will stop you from performing any actions that are granted by resolving those abilities (FTC).

 

Edit:

a good example that was pointed out previously was Anakin in the athersprite and Afterburners. previously, after doing a 3 sloop you could use afterburners to boost to get into R1 or bullseye to use anakins ability, now if Anakin is not at R1 or have an enemy in bullseye before the boost he wont be able to put his ability in the queue to resolve it after the Afterburners

Edited by Mace Windu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that with Anakin, using Fine Tuned off a red should be acceptable because it is not illegal to give a stressed ship the opportunity to take a free action. See AP-5 for something that only works if coordinate is allowed to target a stressed ship to receive the free action.

Normally stress blocks using an action, but it does not block the trigger that granted that action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that they cleaned up the Boost/Barrel Roll failure language a bit.  Nothing major, but nice.  Hopefully a lot of other actions will get some minor language cleanups.  No real change to the effects of the rules, but it makes it easier to shut down silly arguments.

//

I feel vindicated on Rose/Deathfire.  I always felt the issue wasn't with the ruling, but with the rules reference.  To that end, I thought the right adjustment to Finn was to make a rules reference revision.

//

Sense is now the pre-measurement king.  You can check 0-1 and 0-3, and then decide to spend force or not.

//

14 hours ago, Wazat said:

I have important questions about Snap Shot timing in relation to Fine-Tuned Controls.  I'm disappointed FFG didn't make it clearer.

Scenario: Jedi has first player and finishes its maneuver at range 3.  I put Snap Shot on the queue.  They fine-tuned boost into range 2.  I resolve snap shot and shoot them in the face.  Is this valid?  Or do I have to check all the requirements for performing snap shot before being able to shove it into the queue, including the extensive attack requirements?

The new ruling is very unclear about what a requirement is and how deep it goes into resolution to determine validity.

Same thing happens with Dengar and Turr, BTW.  Turr Phennir shoots Dengar from outside his arc, then boosts to avoid a different foe, landing in Dengar's arc.  Did Dengar get to add his counter-attack to the queue before Turr boosted?  Or because he doesn't meet the requirements for the attack (which include extensive steps of checks), does he not get to add to the ability queue?

I kinda think "requirements" of an effect are simpler: are you able to make bonus attacks (not disabled, haven't used your bonus attack already)?  But it's unclear enough that I'm sure I'll get loads of pushback, especially against jedi players who don't want to take a snap shot or foresight to the face after they boost into range/arc.

I'm frustrated with what I think this means for Snap Shot/Foresight.  Someone can move out of the arc if they're first player, but not move into the arc.  I don't like that asymmetry.

I think there's a case for Turr/Dengar being different.  With the way the aftermath step resolves, I'm not sure when abilities get added to the queue.  I think there's a case that Dengar's ability wouldn't be added to the queue until the 3rd part of the Aftermath Step, when defenders perform "after defending" abilities which perform bonus attacks.

//

11 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

I think that with Anakin, using Fine Tuned off a red should be acceptable because it is not illegal to give a stressed ship the opportunity to take a free action. See AP-5 for something that only works if coordinate is allowed to target a stressed ship to receive the free action.

Normally stress blocks using an action, but it does not block the trigger that granted that action.

If your maneuver lands in a position to get bullseye/range 1, I'd say yes.  You'd be able to queue up both effects (Anakin's pilot ability, FTC)

If it doesn't and you'd need to use an Afterburners boost or R4-P17 to get Range 1 or Bullseye?  I'd say Anakin's ability can't trigger.

//

12 hours ago, Raynor1111 said:

So, does anyone have any thoughts on the new lines in the Ability Que rules?

 

 

The example clearly shuts off chaining Ensnare, but I can think of a few other cases this might seriously affect. Like the previous Official Ruling on Kanan Jarrus and Inertial Dampeners, since the ship in question isn't stressed when Kanan's ability would be added to the queue. Or, Anakin Skywalker in the Delta-7 Aethersprite, after executing a red maneuver, he'd be stressed, so couldn't performed the bonus action from Fine-Tuned Controls, even if he were to add his Pilot Ability to remove the stress.

Well, I think the Anakin/R4-P44 open question that no one really cared about is settled.  You can't Anakin > FTC > R4-P44.

Relatedly, I think Pattern Analyzer Nien Nunb isn't really effected, the timing on the action from Pattern Analyzer is different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

I think that with Anakin, using Fine Tuned off a red should be acceptable because it is not illegal to give a stressed ship the opportunity to take a free action. See AP-5 for something that only works if coordinate is allowed to target a stressed ship to receive the free action.

Normally stress blocks using an action, but it does not block the trigger that granted that action.

Coordinate separates choosing a ship from granting the action as part of its queue. Here is the are the steps from the RR:

  1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
  2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1-2.
  3. The chosen ship performs one action.

The granted action is both A) an independent step from choosing the ship within the Coordinate action, and B) a separate trigger for the second ship nested within the first. The second ship's action has no bearing on the coordinating ship, since there's even the text:

  • If the chosen ship attempts to perform an action but that action fails, the coordinate does not fail.

Thus, the Coordinate action passes the action away and moves on within its own process (with exception of other game effects such as Ciena Ree, ST-321, etc.).

AP-5 only grants the clause "if you chose a ship with exactly 1 stress token, it can perform actions" to negate the RR clause

  • A ship cannot perform actions while stressed.

The new clause changes the way opportunities work so I don't think it's so clear cut to say "it is not illegal to give a stressed ship the opportunity to take a free action." I would argue that it now is illegal to give them the opportunity because that opportunity should never enter the ability queue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...