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kyten44

Should i come back?

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Hello old friends. I have not played x wing in over a year. Since before 2.0. And to be honest, i miss it. And am thinking about picking it up again. However, i am nevous about the changes from version 1 to 2. Am i going to be disappointed when my old ships or tactics dont work anymore? Basically, how is the learning curve? And does the game still feel alive and active?

Also, are the Imperials still the best? 😃   well that was a silly question. Of course they are!

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As a Rebel player... Imperials are and have been in a pretty good spot. Things to remember:

1: First Order is it's own thing now, so... forget them unless you wanna have them as a second faction.

2: The Core Set will have pilots not found in the conversion kit and they are definitely worth it.

3: Triple Defenders are dead... unless you're playing an Epic match. Points wise, you can't squeeze in 3 for a normal match.

4: You're going to be short on a few upgrades sticking JUST with Imperials right off the bat, but fear not! Just bare with it until the next wave when the new card packs come out! New pilots, a chunk of upgrades you won't get in either the core set or conversion kit

5: We're five waves in and swarms are still friggin viable! 

6: Rebels and Imperials have been basically been declared "complete" as of right now, so you seriously only need to buy the core set and conversion kit and the up coming card pack expansions (at the VERY least the pilot expansion) to get the most out of your Imperial fleet.

7: You might not be able to fly EXACTLY what you flew before, but there are enough options that you'll figure out something close ;)

8: Use the official app at your own risk. ANY of the third party list building apps are genuinely better in almost every aspect... speaking of the apps, either check the board here for announcements on upcoming points changes (minor ones for wave releases, major ones every 6 months, and emergency ones if something BROKEN rears it's ugly head like Triple Upsilons a few months back) or just keep an eye on the lists in the app. Alternatively, you could just print out the points PDFs every time if you wanna keep things low tech-ish. 

Lastly, have fun. I've been playing since wave 7 or 8 of wave 1 and I've been having more fun with 2.0 than I EVER had in 1.0. The new mechanics are great and most, if not all, of the issues I had with 1.0 were fixed or reduced to near non-existence with the version change.  

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I actually had most of ver 1.0. Not just imps. I think i missed the last wave. Maybe last 2. 

So it is like a new game with familiar pieces?

What is one of the biggest changes i will have to deal with?

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35 minutes ago, kyten44 said:

I actually had most of ver 1.0. Not just imps. I think i missed the last wave. Maybe last 2. 

So it is like a new game with familiar pieces?

What is one of the biggest changes i will have to deal with?

Turrets no longer have 360 degree firing arcs. A ship has to decide where their turret is pointing, and it costs an action to move it.

Dice modification is much more constrained, which makes dice rolls matter more. Gone are the days of rolling the dice and simply declaring that, due to upgrade shenanigans, that you've got all hits/all evades.

Push the Limit and Autothrusters are no more. Ships taking multiple actions in a round only really occurs when they've got a ship ability which allows certain actions to be taken (for example, TIE Interceptors can perform a stressful barrel roll or boost after performing another action).

EDIT: More things!

Charge Tokens: some upgrades and pilots use charge tokens to track things, rather than discarding cards. This looks much nicer on the board, and has opened the door for new and interesting abilities. Most ordnance now has multiple shots built in, making investing in torpedoes/missiles viable without multiple upgrades.

Things which require a target lock to fire no longer have to spend that lock to fire. This means you can reroll that inevitable blanking out on your Proton Torpedo shot.

The Force is a Thing. Force Users have Force Charges, which can be spent to convert eyeball results (one charge = one eyeball converted) or to power other abilities. They even have their own special class of upgrades (Force Powers) but don't have access to 'normal' talents.

Edited by AceDogbert

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It's the same game, with a bunch of small changes. While there are a few more rules than x-wing 1.0 (such as the system phase), the changes have generally streamlined the game, making it much easier to play. The changes in 2.0 have also focused the game more on maneuvering than on bringing the right upgrades. Almost all players agree that x-wing 2.0 is significantly better than 1.0. The game feels very alive and active, and people are enjoying it a lot more than in the tail end of 1.0 with ghost fenn and jamming reapers and whatnot.

If you were playing 1.0 a fair bit, you will not find the learning curve very steep. Imperials are very strong right now, particularly aces like vader, soontir, duchess, and the inquisitors.

I'll do a quick rundown of the main changes:

1 minute ago, AceDogbert said:

Turrets no longer have 360 degree firing arcs. A ship has to decide where their turret is pointing, and it costs an action to move it.

 

1 minute ago, AceDogbert said:

Dice modification is much more constrained, which makes dice rolls matter more.

^ This increases variance somewhat, but it also means that out-flying your opponent is the best way to gain an advantage (rather than building a list with more broken upgrades and abilities than your opponent).

3 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

Push the Limit and Autothrusters are no more.

^ Many ships have "linked actions" which allow them to perform a second action at the cost of a stress. What these actions are depends on the ship.

- Evade tokens no longer "add" a result, they can only change a result. Reinforce tokens can add an evade, but have to let at least one damage through when used. THe damage deck is more consistent, and double damage from crits is common. This means ships die more easily in 2nd edition.

- If you cannot perform an action (eg. a boost you declare is blocked) that action fails and you don't get a redo. Also, barrel rolls are much less flexible than they were. This speeds up gameplay immensely.

- Round tokens (focus, evade, reinforce, jam, disarm, tractor) leave the table at the end of the round.

- Abilities that have limited use are tracked using tokens (called charge tokens) to make it easier to manage game state.

- Force users have force tokens (mini-focuses that can only change one dice result) which regenerate when spent (1/round).

 

11 minutes ago, kyten44 said:

Thx. Looks like i have a lot to learn. Might pick up the core set 2.0 on payday.

If you like what you find in the core set, then a single imperial conversion kit will give you all you need to field competitive imperial lists with your ships from 1.0. A conversion kit doesn't contain enough to convert vast numbers of ships, but it is enough for almost all the competitive lists.

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Short answer: Yes!
Long answer: Yes, they fixed some of the mechanics that allowed you to win without doing a big effort (360 degree turrets, invincible combos, AKA ghostfenn...) and there's new stuff like charges and force. One of the important changes is how torpedoes, rockets and missiles works. If you never played a 2.0, I recommend to go to your FLGS and ask for a game to any "veteran 2.0" player.

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2 hours ago, kyten44 said:

Thx. Looks like i have a lot to learn. Might pick up the core set 2.0 on payday.

Well....it really is the same game, but with a few things changed.  

  1. All the broken combos are gone.  There are combos, but no more of these crazy "must have" EPT's and such that literally made a ship so powerful you should never take another ship.
  2. The overall game is really balanced.  Look at the latest tournament numbers and you see a very wide amount of ships being played and many making it to top tables.  
  3. The game isn't won in the list building phase anymore.
  4. Positioning is a lot more important than it was.  Flying well is a lot more important than it was at the end of 1st Ed.  

There are little things, like Predator is still there and works just about the same....except only in the bullseye arc.  That's the little arc directly where the pegs go in a straight line.  So.....if you can line up shots really well, it works, but otherwise it doesn't do anything.  

I read a thread a month ago about how someone was complaining about not being able to make all these crazy broken lists in this version of the game.  They wanted all the broken combos and OP stuff as it was fun to list build that way.   The game is more about actually playing it than designing an OP list.  It is much better.  

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4 hours ago, kyten44 said:

Basically, how is the learning curve?

Personnally, it took me 10-15 games to get used to 2.0.

Most official tournament game that I have played were very tight, and yes, dices may have switched the game, but with a bad position, you won'T roll attack dices, or you will roll defense dices when you were not supposed to. 

I really enjoy 2.0, much more than 1.0. There are lists that are stronger, but nothing compared to Nymranda or Triple U-boats. If you fly well, and you optimize your opportunities, you have big chances of winning your game.

Oh yeah, the game are longer. I am a player who likes to finish my games, and last tournament, only 1 out of 5 games have not gone to time limit.

Edited by Silver_leader

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4 hours ago, kyten44 said:

I actually had most of ver 1.0. Not just imps. I think i missed the last wave. Maybe last 2. 

So it is like a new game with familiar pieces?

What is one of the biggest changes i will have to deal with?

Double mods on both defense and offense is rarer/ expensive. 

As long as you don’t want to play Dash you’re good. 🙄😜

Edited by JBFancourt

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The game is better than it's ever been, so it's a good time to come back. Competitively Empire and Republic are at the top, but keep in mind both the echo chamber and the local meta; there's bound to be stuff in there that's yet to be found/flown/convinced said chamber. All factions and nearly all ships see competitive play, but if your favourites are the TIE Aggressor, Jumpmaster, YT-2400, K-Wing or Starfortress, you're probably going to have to wait for new cards and/or points adjustments.

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Thank you all for your responses. This has been most encouraging. I DL the official app and the rule book. There doesn't seem to be many fundamental changes (except for turrets). 

My favorite to fly has always been interceptors (Fel). Whisper was a close second. And i miss the feel of a perfectly placed BR or boost. 

Payday cant come fast enough.

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6 hours ago, kyten44 said:

I actually had most of ver 1.0. Not just imps. I think i missed the last wave. Maybe last 2. 

So it is like a new game with familiar pieces?

What is one of the biggest changes i will have to deal with?

There is one slight issue you may find.

If you had most V1.0 ships, you are facing buying the starter and 5 different conversion kits to get all your ships going for V2.0.

  • Rebels + Resistance for your V1.0 Rebel ships.
  • Empire + First Order for your V1.0 Empire ships.
  • Scum is still Scum.

 

All in all I didn't find the switchover from 1.0 to 2.0 very hard. Some things are the same. Some are a lot different.  Some are only slightly different.

But I'm a casual player, not serious tournaments.

 

 

Changes I didn't see  other people mention:

* Fleets are now 200 points not 100, so keep this in mind when using army builder apps. Ships are roughly double the points, so still more or less the same number of ships.  3-4 seems to be the norm.

* "Pilot Skill" changed to "Initiative"  (although almost everyone where I play still uses PS),  and have gone from range 0-10  to range 0-6 (7).

* There are now Medium size ships,  and some ships now use a different size base than in V1.0.

Edited by Bort

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36 minutes ago, kyten44 said:

Thank you all for your responses. This has been most encouraging. I DL the official app and the rule book. There doesn't seem to be many fundamental changes (except for turrets). 

My favorite to fly has always been interceptors (Fel). Whisper was a close second. And i miss the feel of a perfectly placed BR or boost. 

Payday cant come fast enough.

The FFG app us a little clunky, but not terrible.  The worst thing is you can't COPY a ship you just built.  It shows you the cards and dials, though. 

What you will have to get used to is Push The Limit is gone, but kind of baked into most ships by having Linked Actions.  It is a limited version of PtL.  

Tie Phantoms are more balanced because they are finally 3 attack dice, which makes them balanced.  

Tie Interceptors are the only ships that can Boost and Barrel Roll in the game, but are still a bit fragile. 

Epic Battles is coming out soon and it introduces Scenarios into the game.  Also Huge ships are coming back out.  It's a good time to play something other than death match.

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45 minutes ago, kyten44 said:

Thank you all for your responses. This has been most encouraging. I DL the official app and the rule book. There doesn't seem to be many fundamental changes (except for turrets). 

My favorite to fly has always been interceptors (Fel). Whisper was a close second. And i miss the feel of a perfectly placed BR or boost. 

Payday cant come fast enough.

Well, since you point out those particular ships, please pay attention to the new rules regarding the barrel rolls, since now they are quite strict on the position from which you measure with the template and the final position in which you place the ship afterwards (As this also applies to decloacking)

This was quite an important change compared to 1.0.

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1 hour ago, Okapi said:

All factions and nearly all ships see competitive play, but if your favourites are the TIE Aggressor, Jumpmaster, YT-2400, K-Wing or Starfortress, you're probably going to have to wait for new cards and/or points adjustments.

First of all, welcome back! I just got back in about 5 months ago myself, and the game is in truly good shape.

I’ll jump on this quoted section a bit because there’s one definite pitfall of 2.0 that I’ve run into: not all ships from 1.0 ended up flying or performing the same way in 2.0. In some cases, this is unambiguously good; if you liked the Firespray in 1.0, then 2.0 will make you wish you’d bought at least one more. But sometimes ships that were okay in 1.0 feel weirdly different—and not better—in 2.0. Here I’m looking at the Z-95, which was never stellar, but which feels like it’s definitely come down a few pegs.

Overall though, I’d say dive in and have fun! Don’t worry about playing combo-wing; just get some ships on the board and make pew pew noises. The king of 2.0 is time on target, not tricksy shenanigans—and in the end that makes for a better game.

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7 hours ago, kyten44 said:

Hello old friends. I have not played x wing in over a year. Since before 2.0. And to be honest, i miss it. And am thinking about picking it up again. However, i am nevous about the changes from version 1 to 2. Am i going to be disappointed when my old ships or tactics dont work anymore? Basically, how is the learning curve? And does the game still feel alive and active?

Also, are the Imperials still the best? 😃   well that was a silly question. Of course they are!

Play Legion instead. 

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13 hours ago, kyten44 said:

Am i going to be disappointed when my old ships or tactics dont work anymore? Basically, how is the learning curve? And does the game still feel alive and active?

1: This one is entirely on you, and not something anyone else can answer.  Just recognize that a vast number of the old combos don’t exist anymore, or at the very least are far harder and less intuitive to pull off.  There are new tricks and synergies though (even though I’ve shifted almost exclusively to Republic, Inferno Squadron remains super intriguing to me).

2: I found the learning curve to be fine.  I played a lot of the Shadow Caster in my waning days of 1st ed, so the turret change was no problem at all to adjust to.  The rest of it really boils down to getting used to the new barrel roll, the change to evade, and getting a handle on calculate and force (both of which are essentially a “mini focus” that works on only 1 die).

3: Again, that’s specific to you and your area.  Anecdotally the game is still doing great, and the recent release of Republic and Separatist factions seems to have brought in more players than were lost in the Edition shift.

 

Other than that, 2.0 is very much the same game, but without the vast majority of the BS that crept into 1.0.  Maneuvering matters, and automatic upgrades like Veteran Instincts and Push the Limit are gone.  Aces tend to rule the roost a little more these days, as the most effective way of dealing with them (turrets or bombs) aren’t as effective anymore.  There is far less (almost none?) of the crazy automatic hits or guaranteed evades that used to exist, token stacking is still super powerful but much harder to pull off, and focus is still usually the best action.

What it really comes down to is that we are 5 waves into 2.0, and both TIE swarms and X-Wings with Proton Torpedoes are still totally viable and powerful choices.  That’s a win for everyone.

Edited by FatherTurin

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The official app had a very poor release, but it's been fixed up and is perfectly usable.  It may not have all the features other apps have, but it's by no means "broken".

Were red actions a thing in 1E?  Just in case, red actions are just actions that you get a stress for performing.

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1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

The official app had a very poor release, but it's been fixed up and is perfectly usable.  It may not have all the features other apps have, but it's by no means "broken".

Were red actions a thing in 1E?  Just in case, red actions are just actions that you get a stress for performing.

Oh, and purple actions are just actions that you have to spend a force to use.  

And charges.  And the little triangle that means recurring.... 

Ok, there are a few changes, but still nothing super complicated or anything to be concerned about.

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